Whats the cartridge you LOVE to HATE?

[jake545]

Yeah dude, without velocity and a drag function all you have is Sectional Density. A dont recall him speaking to SD in his post. We're speaking about it BC which is directly related to velocity which it means it absolutely matters what cartridge you're using it in if you an expect to get that BC.

Please show me where I said velocity had no bearing on BC! I'll wait here for you.

However velocity used to calculate BC (for comparison) is consistent, you stated around 3000fps but hornady uses 2512fps etc. Now to get a true BC to your given rifle bullet combo, yes you need to be more specific with your velocity.



From Berger

"Ballistic Coefficient is a measure of how well a bullet retains velocity as it flies downrange, in comparison to a standard."

Therefore a calculated BC is not tied to a cartridge but to a velocity that can be obtained in numerous cartridges.

 

[StanleyActual]

Yes we have to true it but BC is based off of mass, diameter and length of the projectile. Not solely based off of velocity. It is simply a numeric calculation to show how aerodynamic a projectile is. Thus showing the amount of velocity loss expected over a given distance (time).

Once again the discussion was about BC not 270win.


View attachment 438502



Have a great day Stanley.

Yeah man. I'm a aware how It works.

The OP directly referenced the 270win and why it's not as popular as the 6mm and 6.5mm given the higher .277 BC offerings and I gave my options on why that was.

I like the 270. It's a great caliber has had great potential , and it's about time that they started taking Advantage of it by offering heavier high bc projectiles for it, but until gun Manufactures start pushing out rifles with the twist rates needed to stabilize them, and keep components / quality ammunition on the shelves. it will Never be as popular as the the other cartridges.

If You like I can just start screen shooting quotes too. Where would you like me to start?

Take care Jake

 

[bultinkle]

"270 winchester is the greatest example of the worst of all worlds tricking a market into accepting mediocrity with a smile" -Christopher Robin

 

[QuietTexan]

until gun Manufactures start pushing out rifles with the twist rates needed to stabilize them, it will Never be as popular as the the other cartridges.

Agree, there's no reason a 6.8 CM or 277-08 couldn't be made to work, they just don't offer anything different enough to exist commercially yet because the bullets that make it worth it are just coming about. We got a 25 cal LRHT from Berger, but nothing in the .277/6.8 yet. There's no factory 270 Win I've ever seen that will stabilize a bullet needing an 8 twist.

There's pretty much no argument against the .277 bore being a step-child at this point, it's neck and neck with the 25 cal in terms of being in a great ballistic spot that gets overlooked. 6.8 SPC and 277 Wolverine are about the only SA .277 calibers I know of. The 270 WSM suffers from the same COAL disease that all the short mags do when loaded with newer longer bullets and isn't a true SA chambering in my book. 6.8 Western is a meh to me so far, 2.955" book COL isn't going into anything shorter than an XM.

There are a lot of places between 6mm and 7mm for matches between bullet weight, bullet BC, and case capacity to build short action 1000 yard cartridges. 25 cal has the bullets finally, 277 will get its LRHT bullet eventually (if only because the 6.8 Western needs it), and we'll see hopefully see more chamberings get developed.

People hate the 6.5 CM but I wouldn't mind the 25 Creed going mainstream. What else is there, 257 Bob or 25-06? Both of those will always be limited by being standardized before the long-bullet era began and limited to handloaders to use long bullets. Great for those of us that load and mess around with reamers, but terrible for actually selling.

 

[jake545]

Yeah man. I'm a aware how It works.

The OP directly referenced the 270win and why it's not as popular as the 6mm and 6.5mm given the higher .277 BC offerings and I gave my options on why that was.

I like the 270. It's a great caliber and always has been, and it's about time that they started taking Advantage of it by offering heavier high bc projectiles for it, but until gun Manufactures start pushing out rifles with the twist rates needed to stabilize them, it will Never be as popular as the the other cartridges.

You too Jake.

I think you read that into it. He was simply stating how better BC bullets and faster twist could really make the 270win shine. He then went on to state how 277 bullets could have a highest BC potential than 6.5 (.264) or 6mm (.243).


"You know, the 270Win has been largely forgotten. Not sure why. Its performance can really be enhanced by better high BC bullets and tighter rifling.
The .277 caliber has a greater BC potential than the 6.5 or 6mm"


I'm not even a huge 270 fan but just pointed out that it seemed you were crossed up on what he was trying to say.

Bullets designed for the 6.8 western can help out with this along with custom barrels.

Is it practical, no, but this is shooting, so much of what we do isn't practical. Including this discussion.

 

[StanleyActual]

I think you read that into it. He was simply stating how better BC bullets and faster twist could really make the 270win shine. He then went on to state how 277 bullets could have a highest BC potential than 6.5 (.264) or 6mm (.243).


"You know, the 270Win has been largely forgotten. Not sure why. Its performance can really be enhanced by better high BC bullets and tighter rifling.
The .277 caliber has a greater BC potential than the 6.5 or 6mm"


I'm not even a huge 270 fan but just pointed out that it seemed you were crossed up on what he was trying to say.

As @Calvin45 stated, I think we agree but are staying it differently. Gotta love these long threads, you inevitably end up with a bunch of people arguing with each other saying the same exact thing in a different way.

 

[jake545]

As @Calvin45 stated, I think we agree but are staying it differently. Gotta love these long threads, you inevitably end up with a bunch of people arguing with each other saying the same exact thing in a different way.

I'm trying to get you to 65 Calvin

 

[nralifer]

I agree with Stanley, there's finally a surge in modern bullets for the .277s, and the 270 WIN would benefit from custom reamer treatment just like the 300 Win Mag does. Finagle the freebore and throat for newer bullets and there's no reason they can't keep up.

You can almost always keep older cartridges running side by side with newer designs, but the older designs are hamstrung by so many old rifles being out there - so you won't ever see the ammo sitting on the shelf outside the original spec which restricts them to the handloading crowd.

At that point if you're stuck handloading for a custom chamber, why not sharpen up the shoulders a little, take out some of the taper, bulk up the case capacity some... and now we just recreated the 6.8 Western.

What you say makes total sense. In these days of shortages, improving the 270win case makes more sense now more than ever because parent brass is still widely available either as 270Win brass or 30-06 brass. 1:7 and 1:8 twist barrels are available from Preferred or McGowan barrels, allowing the use of the highest BC bullets available,with shorter lead times. The 270Win works great with CCI BR2 primers which are more available than other LRPs. If one wants a custom reamer, be sure the free bore clearance with the bullet is 0.0003-0.0004"/side. This aligns copper bullets well to the rifling reducing the sensitivity to jump distances to the rifling.

 

[Calvin45]

I'm trying to get you to 65 Calvin

Much obliged. @Muddyboots is gonna cut off my left thumb if I'm wrong

 

[Epee]

My worthless $.02...

I don't like the CM cartridges. Never owned one, but dislike how much they are marketed.

I'm sticking with my 30-378, 130 grain hammer laser beam rifle. With a 4 port brake, it kicks less than my several 300 WM's. When I shoot the barrel out, I'm putting on a faster twist. This stuff is so much fun, I can't believe it isn't illegal.

 

[StanleyActual]

My worthless $.02...

I don't like the CM cartridges. Never owned one, but dislike how much they are marketed.

I'm sticking with my 30-378, 130 grain hammer laser beam rifle. With a 4 port brake, it kicks less than my several 300 WM's. When I shoot the barrel out, I'm putting on a faster twist. This stuff is so much fun, I can't believe it isn't illegal.

That's gotta be an absolute laser !

 

[Muddyboots]

Ok, my take is the .270Win will FOREVER be relegated for higher BC heavier longer bullets as a CUSTOM build. Liability of wrong ammo to standard SAAMI chamber is freaking ENORMOUS. My 700LA .270Win 27" 1:8tw 5R with 0.290 freebore exceeded most of anyone's expectation. Even the infamous prognosticator out of Saskatchewan @Calvin45 ! Its the first rifle I take out of safe being so much fun to shoot. Velocities FAR exceeded expectation with 170EOL easily topping 3100 which is no slouch!

 

[purpledragon]

That's gotta be an absolute laser !

I'm working on a 7mm right now that uses an Ackley Improved 30-378 case to shoot the 130gr Absolute Hammer bullet. It should be a laser as well......

 

[StanleyActual]

I'm working on a 7mm right now that uses an Ackley Improved 30-378 case to shoot the 130gr Absolute Hammer bullet. It should be a laser as well......

Yeah that's gonna be a fun one. I've always been interested in Shane's Terminator line of cartridges. Specifically the 284 Terminator cuz I'm just a fan of 7mm's and a 180gn Berger at 33-3400 fps would be bad *** for the 5rds I got out of the barrel.

338 Edge will be next for me. Maybe one day I'll get into a terminator. We'll shall see.