Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Done!!!
See a wolf... what would you do?
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1100 Remington Man
Well-Known Member
Remember the 3 S's Shoot Shovel Shutup.
Laws are supposed to fit the people for the greater good.... I don't see this happening with the wolf proublem.
Laws are supposed to fit the people for the greater good.... I don't see this happening with the wolf proublem.
Idbowhunter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2010
- Messages
- 14
I don't know if you all know about this site but its where the real people have spotted wolves. www.NorthwestWolfSightings.org
jmden
Well-Known Member
Below is an email received today from Big Game Forever detailing federal plans to establish wolves in the Southern Rockies.
Please take a moment to read and research and then please do the 3 items under
"Here is how you can help stop these plans:"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Folks,
I am sending you the official plan from the federal government to place wolves in the Southern Rockies. Every sportsman in America needs to see this plan. These plans will spread wolves into 97.5% of all elk in America.
Here is what they are doing: Baca National Wildlife refuge in Southern Colorado will have wolves transplanted in 2012 if portions of this plan are implemented. Baca is much, much smaller than Yellowstone. It is only 70 Miles from Northern New Mexico. It is only 250 Miles from Southern Utah and Northern Arizona. Wolves can travel that far in less than a week.
Yellowstone National Park was used to introduce wolves to the Northern Rockies. Without your help, history will repeat itself this year in the Southern Rockies.
See the official plan for yourself at the link below (look on page 8, bottom of the first column where they mention the introduction of wolves in Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge).
http://www.fws.gov/alamosa/planning/slv_ccp_update2_web2.pdf
Here is how you can help stop these plans:
(1) Spread the word: Send this email to 10 friends and ask them to forward this email to more friends.
(2) Join the Fight: If you haven't already, sign the online petition to stop these wolf expansion plans at Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
(3) Take Action: It only takes 30 seconds to send a message to your representatives in Congress to stop these plans. Simply go to Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations and click the "Take Action" button to send a message in support of two bills in Congress, S. 249 and H.R. 509, the Big Game and Livestock Protection Act. Without S. 249 and H.R. 509, it will be very difficult to slow down these plans to expand wolves throughout 97.5% of all elk in America.
Without a very substantial outcry from sportsmen and livestock owners, wolves will very likely be placed in Colorado this year. While attempts have been made to dismiss the use of wolves as "not the preferred alternative," now that they are an official part of the plan, we are one very small step away from having wolves introduced into Baca National Widlife Refuge. We can't leave this to chance.
Over 10,000 messages have already been sent to Congress to stop the plans to put wolves in the Baca, but we need many, many more. Especially from the 600,0000 hunters in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah.
We need all need to join the fight to stop this from happening. Remember, Idaho's elk harvest has been cut in half by wolves. Wolves have been a huge burden for livestock producers. Without substantial changes to the underlying statutes, it is a bad idea to spread these failed policies to the Southern Rockies.
Here are some news articles about these plans for wolves in Colorado.
Wolves to be considered for culling elk herds - The Pueblo Chieftain: Colorado State And Regional News
Wildlife Refuge May Use Wolves To Control Elk Population - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk
Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk
Wolf Release Programs in Colorado? | Pagosa Springs News & Vacation Information
We are continuing to research this developing story. We will keep you apprised as developments arise.
Thanks for your willingness to join the fight to protect our ranching and outdoor heritage.
Ryan Benson
Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
[email protected]
Please take a moment to read and research and then please do the 3 items under
"Here is how you can help stop these plans:"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Folks,
I am sending you the official plan from the federal government to place wolves in the Southern Rockies. Every sportsman in America needs to see this plan. These plans will spread wolves into 97.5% of all elk in America.
Here is what they are doing: Baca National Wildlife refuge in Southern Colorado will have wolves transplanted in 2012 if portions of this plan are implemented. Baca is much, much smaller than Yellowstone. It is only 70 Miles from Northern New Mexico. It is only 250 Miles from Southern Utah and Northern Arizona. Wolves can travel that far in less than a week.
Yellowstone National Park was used to introduce wolves to the Northern Rockies. Without your help, history will repeat itself this year in the Southern Rockies.
See the official plan for yourself at the link below (look on page 8, bottom of the first column where they mention the introduction of wolves in Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge).
http://www.fws.gov/alamosa/planning/slv_ccp_update2_web2.pdf
Here is how you can help stop these plans:
(1) Spread the word: Send this email to 10 friends and ask them to forward this email to more friends.
(2) Join the Fight: If you haven't already, sign the online petition to stop these wolf expansion plans at Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
(3) Take Action: It only takes 30 seconds to send a message to your representatives in Congress to stop these plans. Simply go to Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations and click the "Take Action" button to send a message in support of two bills in Congress, S. 249 and H.R. 509, the Big Game and Livestock Protection Act. Without S. 249 and H.R. 509, it will be very difficult to slow down these plans to expand wolves throughout 97.5% of all elk in America.
Without a very substantial outcry from sportsmen and livestock owners, wolves will very likely be placed in Colorado this year. While attempts have been made to dismiss the use of wolves as "not the preferred alternative," now that they are an official part of the plan, we are one very small step away from having wolves introduced into Baca National Widlife Refuge. We can't leave this to chance.
Over 10,000 messages have already been sent to Congress to stop the plans to put wolves in the Baca, but we need many, many more. Especially from the 600,0000 hunters in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah.
We need all need to join the fight to stop this from happening. Remember, Idaho's elk harvest has been cut in half by wolves. Wolves have been a huge burden for livestock producers. Without substantial changes to the underlying statutes, it is a bad idea to spread these failed policies to the Southern Rockies.
Here are some news articles about these plans for wolves in Colorado.
Wolves to be considered for culling elk herds - The Pueblo Chieftain: Colorado State And Regional News
Wildlife Refuge May Use Wolves To Control Elk Population - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk
Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk
Wolf Release Programs in Colorado? | Pagosa Springs News & Vacation Information
We are continuing to research this developing story. We will keep you apprised as developments arise.
Thanks for your willingness to join the fight to protect our ranching and outdoor heritage.
Ryan Benson
Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
[email protected]
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
I really wish people like yourself would read stuff before they put things like this on a website! Have you read the plan that Benson/BGF is crying wolf over? I have and there are 3 different possibilities with each being multifaceted in their approach. There is ONE sentence in Plan C that mentions a possible LOOK at introducing wolves, but the major way that they are looking at reducing the elk population is hunting. The comment period is open until 2/25 and nothing will be finalized until 2014 at the earliest. For Ryan Benson to put that email out saying they are going to introduce wolves into the baca this year is a bald-faced lie and an attempt to cry wolf and get more money in the BFG coffers like they did when things were going on trying to delist them up north. BGF and SFW went under the table and tried to bust the plan, but then when it went through, was finalized, and they were delisted the BFG and SFW tried to take credit for it. If people would do a little research, they would find everything I have stated in this post is 100% fact! This BGF baloney is all over the internet on hunting websites with ridiculous lies and it's getting so they are as bad at PETA in putting out BS trying to increase their membership numbers with scare tactics!!!
jmden
Well-Known Member
After seeing how the introduction of wolves to the Yellowstone area and ID was accomplished, with 'rules' and numbers and timelines changing so often, I don't have much faith in the feds doing what they say they are going to do or not going to do, especially with extreme environmentalist groups pushing their lawsuit happy agenda.
If it is in the plan at all, you can also bet the extreme environmentalist groups will be pushing it and suing as necessary. We've seen this before. "Oh...were only going to have 300 wolves." Sound familiar? Don't let them get a foot in the door is what I say.
There are already wolves in the southwest, the feds don't need to introduce anymore.
You can bet this list of folks from the Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project ( Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project - Coalition Partners -- check out this list) will be watching this closely.
Topgun, what do you think we should do?
Give us links to your research and help us understand your point of view, OK?
If it is in the plan at all, you can also bet the extreme environmentalist groups will be pushing it and suing as necessary. We've seen this before. "Oh...were only going to have 300 wolves." Sound familiar? Don't let them get a foot in the door is what I say.
There are already wolves in the southwest, the feds don't need to introduce anymore.
You can bet this list of folks from the Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project ( Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project - Coalition Partners -- check out this list) will be watching this closely.
Topgun, what do you think we should do?
Give us links to your research and help us understand your point of view, OK?
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
See my reply to your same question in the other thread!
codyjoe1128
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2011
- Messages
- 363
Idbowhunter said:
Wanna put a sighting on the map for me at Georgetown,Idaho 4-5 wolf pack crossed the road infont of me in my semi....and on I5 in Washington just north of mt Vernon I saw two beside the interstate runnin through a pasture.....I can't get it to work on my phone...
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
This has been very interesting reading. I love how most of you guys have used well informed, thoughtful input and not let this thread digress into a name calling ****ing match, as usually happens with an issue as emotional as this. I am sure you guys that have read any of my posts on the subject know what my answer to the original question is...(some laws are just made to be broken)
I want to point out something, and introduce a theory, that no one seems to have verbalized throughout this whole conversation, and please pardon me if it sounds like I am condescending to you all, I just want to point it out as if I were talking to a 10 yr old, because this is how we mostly have to talk to people on the other side of this issue to make ourselves understood.
Ok here goes….. Who are the people behind the wolf re-introduction? Mostly USFWS right? What are the demographics of this organization as far as what type people run it? Mostly left leaning, liberal, college educated, professorial types, and mostly from the east coast, big city areas. What is one of the biggest political issues in these areas? One they have fought for incessantly over the recent years? GUN CONTROL……ok stay with me….. Who, as a group, are the main reason they have not been able to implement their gun control policies on the nation as a whole? HUNTERS!!! OK, they have tried and tried to outlaw guns and have run into so much push-back from our ranks and from the ranks of the NRA and such other organizations that they have finally almost given up trying to do it in the normal political venues. They know it's a loser.
What would get rid of most of the hunters out there in a simple efficient way?
If there were no huntable game populations, there would be no reason for hunters, and therefore, no need for guns, (except for you few crazy types who think they need them for self protection)……..what would get rid of the huntable game populations in a in a way that the average citizen would go along with…..BINGO!!!!!! WOLVES lightbulblightbulblightbulb
They have all but won this battle without firing a shot, and they did it using our own money!!!! We all better wake up and smell the coffee and know where this is all going and start the process of getting our elected representatives more in line with what this country is all about, rather than what a few elitists east coast types wish it were.
You can read into this whatever political slant you want, but remember this….the most important shot you will ever fire will be the one inside the voting booth this November…shoot straight. AJ
I want to point out something, and introduce a theory, that no one seems to have verbalized throughout this whole conversation, and please pardon me if it sounds like I am condescending to you all, I just want to point it out as if I were talking to a 10 yr old, because this is how we mostly have to talk to people on the other side of this issue to make ourselves understood.
Ok here goes….. Who are the people behind the wolf re-introduction? Mostly USFWS right? What are the demographics of this organization as far as what type people run it? Mostly left leaning, liberal, college educated, professorial types, and mostly from the east coast, big city areas. What is one of the biggest political issues in these areas? One they have fought for incessantly over the recent years? GUN CONTROL……ok stay with me….. Who, as a group, are the main reason they have not been able to implement their gun control policies on the nation as a whole? HUNTERS!!! OK, they have tried and tried to outlaw guns and have run into so much push-back from our ranks and from the ranks of the NRA and such other organizations that they have finally almost given up trying to do it in the normal political venues. They know it's a loser.
What would get rid of most of the hunters out there in a simple efficient way?
If there were no huntable game populations, there would be no reason for hunters, and therefore, no need for guns, (except for you few crazy types who think they need them for self protection)……..what would get rid of the huntable game populations in a in a way that the average citizen would go along with…..BINGO!!!!!! WOLVES lightbulblightbulblightbulb
They have all but won this battle without firing a shot, and they did it using our own money!!!! We all better wake up and smell the coffee and know where this is all going and start the process of getting our elected representatives more in line with what this country is all about, rather than what a few elitists east coast types wish it were.
You can read into this whatever political slant you want, but remember this….the most important shot you will ever fire will be the one inside the voting booth this November…shoot straight. AJ
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
dogdinger---"If there were no huntable game populations, there would be no reason for hunters, and therefore, no need for guns, (except for you few crazy types who think they need them for self protection)"
Sir---Why was this smartazz remark included in an otherwise decent post?
Sir---Why was this smartazz remark included in an otherwise decent post?
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
definitly toungue in cheek topgun......i am one of those crazy types that carries every where i go...... AJ
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Gotcha AJ! I don't, but have no problem with those that do!!!
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
"I really wish people like yourself would read stuff before they put things like this on a website" -topgun
Ditto....... this is as bad as Peta and their scare tactics. I live about 15 miles from the Baca NWR. there has been a discussion about how to manage the elk/bison population going on for a while now. when dealing with the feds, you have to cross all the T's , so there was one line in a multi page report that mentioned large predators. this refuge was all private property until just about 3 yrs ago, owned by the nature conservancy,(anti hunters) who donated it to the NPS.....for some $$$ considerations. there is a resident herd of as many as 5K elk , depending on the time of year, and a few "feral" bison. the hunters around here are squawking pretty loud about the DOW using this as their private hunting preserve and not allowing the public access. this would disburse the herds just fine, but alot of the ranchers/farmers dont want this because guess where the elk would go? This is in the same general area where there has been a nearly year-round hunting season/damage control hunt with vouchers on private land. it is a shame to see elk being culled in the middle of the summer when their horns are not even fully developed.
there is very little chance the discussion about wolves here will go any further. AJ
Ditto....... this is as bad as Peta and their scare tactics. I live about 15 miles from the Baca NWR. there has been a discussion about how to manage the elk/bison population going on for a while now. when dealing with the feds, you have to cross all the T's , so there was one line in a multi page report that mentioned large predators. this refuge was all private property until just about 3 yrs ago, owned by the nature conservancy,(anti hunters) who donated it to the NPS.....for some $$$ considerations. there is a resident herd of as many as 5K elk , depending on the time of year, and a few "feral" bison. the hunters around here are squawking pretty loud about the DOW using this as their private hunting preserve and not allowing the public access. this would disburse the herds just fine, but alot of the ranchers/farmers dont want this because guess where the elk would go? This is in the same general area where there has been a nearly year-round hunting season/damage control hunt with vouchers on private land. it is a shame to see elk being culled in the middle of the summer when their horns are not even fully developed.
there is very little chance the discussion about wolves here will go any further. AJ
