If I can get the 280 AI to shoot Max at all bullete at published data the 180 burger 175 EDL-x.. but we all know that at max velocity sometimes we don't get the accuracy we need and we have to bump it down 50 feet to 80 fps at that point I'm out of justifying it would rather have a 7 PRC that I can load down and load up hot when I want to shoot game… it's going to be at 5.8 pound gun, 8lbs fully loaded I'm not gonna have a lot of fun shooting that at the range it will be a great backpacking gun but if I can load that down I'll be fine. but the 280 AI is not going to have the power I need elk hunting if I can't get the accuracy of Max publish velocity regardless of bullets I'm talk max published data for everything .. Yes I know I can achieve Max velocity but can achieve maximum accuracy or acceptable accuracy and Max velocity is a question no one can answer.. if I can get the 280 AI to shoot Max at all bullets published with 180 burger 175 EDOXM happy but we all know that at max velocity sometimes we don't get the accuracy we need and we have to bump it down 50 feet80' a second at that point I'm out of justifying it would rather have a 7 PRC that I can load down and load up hot when I want to shoot I don't it's going to be at 5.8 pounds gun (8lbs fully loaded) I'm not gonna have a lot of fun shooting that at the range it will be a great help backpacking gun but if I can load that down I'll be fine but the 280 AI is not going to have the power I need elk hunting if I can't get the accuracy of Max publish velocity regardless of bullet
Loading a bullet to slowest speeds 7mm prc vs 280 AI
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If I can get the 280 AI to shoot Max at all bullete at published data the 180 burger 175 EDL-x.. but we all know that at max velocity sometimes we don't get the accuracy we need and we have to bump it down 50 feet to 80 fps at that point I'm out of justifying it would rather have a 7 PRC that I can load down and load up hot when I want to shoot game… it's going to be at 5.8 pound gun, 8lbs fully loaded I'm not gonna have a lot of fun shooting that at the range it will be a great backpacking gun but if I can load that down I'll be fine. but the 280 AI is not going to have the power I need elk hunting if I can't get the accuracy of Max publish velocity regardless of bullets I'm talk max published data for everything .. Yes I know I can achieve Max velocity but can achieve maximum accuracy or acceptable accuracy and Max velocity is a question no one can answer.. if I can get the 280 AI to shoot Max at all bullets published with 180 burger 175 EDOXM happy but we all know that at max velocity sometimes we don't get the accuracy we need and we have to bump it down 50 feet80' a second at that point I'm out of justifying it would rather have a 7 PRC that I can load down and load up hot when I want to shoot I don't it's going to be at 5.8 pounds gun (8lbs fully loaded) I'm not gonna have a lot of fun shooting that at the range it will be a great help backpacking gun but if I can load that down I'll be fine but the 280 AI is not going to have the power I need elk hunting if I can't get the accuracy of Max publish velocity regardless of bullet
59FLH
Well-Known Member
Got it. sounds like you're looking for some one to agree with you about your theory. I'm in, sounds like a solid plan.
What if the PRC in not accurate loaded down?
What if the PRC in not accurate loaded down?
CBH Australia
Well-Known Member
@DREBS my .280ai is a Tikka action with a carbon fibre stock and CF Wrapped barrel.
Let's call it about 8# loaded I don't have correct figure but it's fairly light. In Leupold 3,5-10 Vx3i
Being a 26" barrel it's front heavy which feels stable from standing position. Has the feel of handling a heavier rifle
It has a Limbsaver recoil pad.
If I can get that group over the bench I expect many others can .
The comparison of a 9# 7prc vs a 6# .280 is still 2 different cartridges.
If you want a lightweight you will have to accept an increase in recoil.
While I can't relate to Elk or the 7prc . You need to be able to place a suitable projectile accurately to secure game.
If they say a .280ai goes close on the performance of a 7mmRM with less recoil ask if the 7mmRM is Elk capable and if you will accept .280ai performance
Let's call it about 8# loaded I don't have correct figure but it's fairly light. In Leupold 3,5-10 Vx3i
Being a 26" barrel it's front heavy which feels stable from standing position. Has the feel of handling a heavier rifle
It has a Limbsaver recoil pad.
If I can get that group over the bench I expect many others can .
The comparison of a 9# 7prc vs a 6# .280 is still 2 different cartridges.
If you want a lightweight you will have to accept an increase in recoil.
While I can't relate to Elk or the 7prc . You need to be able to place a suitable projectile accurately to secure game.
If they say a .280ai goes close on the performance of a 7mmRM with less recoil ask if the 7mmRM is Elk capable and if you will accept .280ai performance
Yes seems I'm trying to get someone to advise me how bad the recoil is another factor is we use Larue quick detach amounts with not poi shift. so when I'm hunting I'm gonna be running about a pound lurpold freedom on there but when I'm at the range I can put a 2 pound night force on there however we're talking about adding mass on top of the scope and not in line of recoil I don't know if this is adding true reduction rifle weight to the reduction recoil or not…
Maybe at the end of the day I just need to buy a dedicated lightweight elk rifle and stick to a 22-20" 6.5 prc to run my suppressor on and a 26" 6.5 creedmore for range shooting barrel life .. I really wanted one rifle to rule them all..
One last thing I thought about that I've never heard of anyone doing I'm a woodworker so I do a lot of epoxy .. Why couldn't we one open up that butt pad you spray silicone all inside so the epoxy doesn't adhere to the inside , Once cured it slides right out Right when you pour it you would hang from a string so it's sitting in the middle of the Epoxy and not touching anything tungsten or lead rods or whatever type of weight you want and whenever your range shooting and not hunting you can slide that perfectly molded 4 pound weight into the hallow stock. Then you could have your 280 ai with near 7mm velocity and 1700-2000 round barrel life and use it at the range shooting and practicing long range.
Maybe at the end of the day I just need to buy a dedicated lightweight elk rifle and stick to a 22-20" 6.5 prc to run my suppressor on and a 26" 6.5 creedmore for range shooting barrel life .. I really wanted one rifle to rule them all..
One last thing I thought about that I've never heard of anyone doing I'm a woodworker so I do a lot of epoxy .. Why couldn't we one open up that butt pad you spray silicone all inside so the epoxy doesn't adhere to the inside , Once cured it slides right out Right when you pour it you would hang from a string so it's sitting in the middle of the Epoxy and not touching anything tungsten or lead rods or whatever type of weight you want and whenever your range shooting and not hunting you can slide that perfectly molded 4 pound weight into the hallow stock. Then you could have your 280 ai with near 7mm velocity and 1700-2000 round barrel life and use it at the range shooting and practicing long range.
7.62 Gunner
Well-Known Member
I'm kinda lost reading through your posts, but if you want a stock that can have weight added there's several chassis options like the mdt hnt26 that are designed for modular weights
MIBirdhunter
Well-Known Member
I have 2 Savage Ultralite rifles, 280AI and 6.5 Creedmoor. I put Leopold VX5HD scopes on both. I shoot the 280 and my wife mostly shoots the 6.5 but certainly can handle the 280AI. I have not shot a 28 Nosler, but certainly don't find the recoil bad on either, but everyone is different. I typically run both without brakes or suppressors ( just need to break down and buy one.) Either way.. good luck.
Ernie
SPONSOR
When I saw your first post, I was going to respond, but I went ahead and read all of the posts. Looks like you got it figured out.
You really need two rifles, one for mountain hunting, and the other for range practice.
What kind of max distance do you have in mind (largest animal you will hunt) for your lightweight rig?
What bullet?
Since it is a factory barrel it will be more of a toss up in terms of accuracy and MV.
If recoil is a issue, don't use a can and get a great brake: Shorter OAL, less weight, and much more recoil reduction.
Yes, you will need to put hearing protection before you shoot, but hopefully you are not doing that much shooting when hunting.
We all experience recoil differently, so trying to find people to tell you what you want to hear will always be dissatisfying much of the time.
You never really know what MV you will end up with combined with accuracy until you do.
If you want a multi-purpose gun, pick a bigger cartridge, heavier contour, with a shorter barrel...Choose a performance level instead of a cartridge first, and then determine what barrel length and chambering(s) will get you there. If you need a shorter barrel, go bigger with the chambering, and keep it stiff enough/heavy enough for range work.
Short stiff barrels shoot really good!!!
18" 7mm Dakota with 175's at 2900 fps
17" 280AI with 140's at 2961 fps (Factory ammo)
The 280AI has a #4 contour if I remember correctly
NickW
Well-Known Member
Don't be afraid to load the 280 AI with the Berger 168 grain hunter. My buddy and a few of his friends have killed a bunch of elk with that cartridge combo. A friend of his took one this year at 850 in NM this year with cartridge / bullet. The outfitter he uses runs a 7mm mag with same bullet. Lots of Elk killed by clients w/ that bullet who didn't bring the right gun. I've taken one Elk with this cartridge bullet combo in NM at 480. Did a great job. Running the 168 / 280ai will give you some wiggle room in load development instead of trying to push a heavy faster. Good luck.
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OldElkHunter1961
Well-Known Member
I have not seen what your calculated goals are.
What is your recoil threshold in foot pounds and velocity?
What is your muzzle energy goal at maximum effective range?
Those numbers will guide your rifle ergonomics (principally weight, need for recoil attenuation) and cartridge performance parameters (bullet weight and velocity).
You may be setting yourself up for a tail chase.
What is your recoil threshold in foot pounds and velocity?
What is your muzzle energy goal at maximum effective range?
Those numbers will guide your rifle ergonomics (principally weight, need for recoil attenuation) and cartridge performance parameters (bullet weight and velocity).
You may be setting yourself up for a tail chase.
bomberodevil
Well-Known Member
A buddy has killed a bunch of elk and a few of his friends? My suggestion would be to not go hunting with him!
WildRose
Well-Known Member
To the bolded, yes.
There are recoil calculators online that can give you both the force and velocity of recoil based on the load and weight of the rifle.
The problem is that big, tough game at 300yds or more and low recoil don't really exist in the same universe.
If you want to shoot heavy, powerful rounds/cartridges there is a price to be paid and there's just no way to avoid that. You can do some things to mitigate it like a good suppressor, muzzle brake, and/or mercury or spring buffer recoil reducer but all of those are going to add costs to a build in weight and/or dollars.
You can also consider something milder and limiting your ranges appropriately. About ten years ago I started shooting the 260 Remington in a relatively light weight Ruger FTW Hawkeye II and it's effectiveness on game is undeniable. Very pleasant rifle to shoot and relatively inexpensive too.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of light loads.
I'm in the school of having more than one rifle.
I'm in the school of having more than one rifle.
Troutslayer2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 756
I decided the other day to zero my lightweight 280 AI without the suppressor because I'm trying to lighten my kit for certain hunts and make it work better for sneaking through timber. Hadn't shot it unbraked or without a suppressor in quite a while. It took me a while to get comfortable with it and although maybe my MV has changed, my groups got bigger and I think I'm going to need a lot more practice controlling the recoil to shrink them back down. The suppressor made me lazy I think, or the component shortage limited my practice sessions. Either way, a light 280AI pushing max velocity isn't the easiest thing to handle.
NickW
Well-Known Member
Lol. Fixed. ThanksA buddy has killed a bunch of elk and a few of his friends? My suggestion would be to not go hunting with him!
