Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Looks like when I am using there brass I'll have go kept an eye time.
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The pieces that actually separated was almost like they were cut across with a saw since it was.such a clean break.
I guess that's why I enjoy the mysteries of hand loading. I've been rolling my own for 60 years, and I'm still surprised at the idiosyncrasies of the game. There will be as many "possible culprits" as there are suggestions, but one might be that the case length was allowed to creep beyond the chamber and into the leade. That would raise the cup by at least 10,000 lbs. If the sizing die was set to bump the shoulder back, the resultant successive shots/handloads would gas cut the case at the pressure ring. I'm just guessing, but I've seen both scenarios happen in my shooting career. (Not me personally). I might also consider a cerrosafe cast of the chamber and careful measurement. Good luck!
Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
This is one of those incidents that can have a primary incident cause as well as contributing causes when tied together make it virtually impossible to determine actual cause. The best solution is what @Gingerman has done thus far in response. Review his reloading steps in excruciating detail with "what if" thought process on each step. This is another reason to have a written reloading process so you can validate conformance to it. Contacted the brass supplier for their evaluation and assistance. A reloading step has been modified as result but not necessarily the primary incident cause. A safety re-enforcement for ALL of us to wear safety glasses was good reminder at range and at our reloading bench. I appreciate the willingness of @Gingerman to post this up because of the depth of knowledge here plus the self check it triggers (I hope) for everyone.
IMO, I cannot think of any other step to take.
Oh wait:
IMO, I cannot think of any other step to take.
Oh wait:
Many years ago I saw a similar case in a 30-06. There was case head separation caused by an over pressure from a previously fired cartridge. I believe that the particular case was on it's 3rd firing. It was later determined that when the over pressure occurred the case was stretched. This caused a thinning of the case wall at the base where it joined at the base and serious weakening of the case at that point. This was indicated on the fired cartridges by a thin bright ring around the case at the juncture of the base. The line was visible on the cases that had been subject to the over pressure condition prior to running the case through a full length sizing die where it became lost in the process of resizing. When the other ammunition from that group of cartridges was examined many exhibited the tell tale ring which lead to the case head separation. This was discussed on another forum,
CouesWhitetail.com https://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/63183-weird-ring-on-brass/
This article goes back to 2016 and a few of the responders also had issues with case head separation. Others just made lite of it. It is a good practice to inspect all of your brass prior to tumbling or running through the sizing die. If something does not look right, throw the case away. Better safe than sorry.
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Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
I'm going to share a little story with all of you. Back in the day wildcatting was all the rage. We also didn't have any money. At the time I was loading for several Weatherby magnums, a .257AI, .357AMP, and a few others. We shot every day nearly. Brass for the Weatherby's was stupid high, and hard to find. I also had a 8MM RM AI and shortly afterward an STW. Feeding all this stuff was a nightmare. I had been using .257Rob brass for the AI and ran into this issue from the get go. Solution was to form brass that was a tight fit on both ends. Using what I learned, I ran into a deal on a case of .300HH brass really cheap. It had fallen out of favor due to the popularity of the .300WM. Soon every magnum I owned had brass headstamped .300HH. The AMP was fed military brass. The moral of the story is you can easily make brass from any brass that has the right head size, and it is long enough. Trick is in preparing it for forming. Use Imperial sizing die wax for serious changes, and nothing else. Whatever partial shoulder you create must form a crush fit, holding the case head tightly against the bolt. You may have to neck it up and then back down to create this. Having the bullet jammed into the lands also helps the brass form properly. Last, if you blow it out very much, or worked the brass in multiple steps, you must anneal the brass after forming, before you load it, or it will split. Perfect example is forming a .300 Weatherby out of HH brass. These days, this is an important skill for any handloader to have. Once again brass is hard to find and expensive. It is not complicated as long as you remember these things. Otherwise, you will have split cases and head separations. Both can be exciting to say the least. Follow these steps and you will have good brass that will last a long time.
Forgot: If necking down, watch your neck thickness. You may have to turn or ream the necks. This is also a great way to get thicker necks to turn to fit a SAAMI chamber BTW.
Forgot: If necking down, watch your neck thickness. You may have to turn or ream the necks. This is also a great way to get thicker necks to turn to fit a SAAMI chamber BTW.
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Whether or not it is a bad piece of brass or a slight malfunction in setting up the headspace upon fire forming, we will never know.
I would like to commend Done and Out for his courage in posting, learning, and for others to learn from this Malfunction.
I would like to commend Done and Out for his courage in posting, learning, and for others to learn from this Malfunction.
Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
Its real easy to thump our chest on how great we are. Its not easy to put yourself out there with a malfunction, problem, oh crap whatever KNOWING the Banshees in the bushes will want their blood but yet willing to share to gain knowledge. And my respect for doing so. I learned from this thread so I appreciated @DoneNOut taking the "heat".
So is it true if you put a "frog" in boiling water it jumps out but if you put "frog" in cool water and bring it to boil it will stay in pot?
So is it true if you put a "frog" in boiling water it jumps out but if you put "frog" in cool water and bring it to boil it will stay in pot?
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
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Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
New brass I cut to length first. Found that new brass can vary several thousands in length. Then set up and cut the neck to thickness. I figure that the new brass the ID is good and any uneveness is to the outside of the neck. If I am reducing my necks to a different caliber it at that time I do so after cutting for neck for thickness. I cut the thickness of the neck in two steps. I set my neck cutting dies up, and leave them set. No changes in dies.
So far no donuts.
I change a long time ago with my belted mag to neck sizing after fire-froming my cases.
So far no donuts.
I change a long time ago with my belted mag to neck sizing after fire-froming my cases.
I have fire formed for 22/250 AI,260AI,280AI and never had a problem with Lapua brass and been using Lapua since the late 80s
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The new Lapua 6.5x284 still got ran through the die and trimmed back although it was only .003 over the suggested 2.160.
The new Lapua 6.5x284 still got ran through the die and trimmed back although it was only .003 over the suggested 2.160. Consistency is the way to go. By the way, anyone have any data using 139Shock Hammers in that cartridge?
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
I got my last item sold on classifieds. My name change was indicative to what I'm doing with this forum.
I thought this was Len's Living room. People were to conduct themselves accordingly. Moderators aren't enforcing that premise of conduct. So, I'm done & out.
Best of luck to all.
I thought this was Len's Living room. People were to conduct themselves accordingly. Moderators aren't enforcing that premise of conduct. So, I'm done & out.
Best of luck to all.
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