Youth rifle recommendation...
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jimbires
Well-Known Member
I copied this thread I posted on another forum . it might give you some help .
I want to pass along some info on these reduced recoil loads . I know a young girl that is wanting to hunt this year . her dad bought her a 308 . it was way to much recoil for her . he then bought her the reduced recoil factory load from a few different companies , these were still to much for her . Oct 20 is the first day of youth doe season . they dropped off her rifle and a new prostaff scope Oct14 .a few days before they told me that the rifle stopped grouping and the recoil is to much for her .we talked and I had him check for loose screws and everything seemed ok . so we decided the scope could be the problem . I mounted the new scope and made up a reduced recoil load .I'm using a Nosler ballistic tip 125 grain . it recommends a min of 1800 FPS . I ran through my quickload and found the powder amount that will give 1923 FPS at 100 yards . it also gives over 1000 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards . I feel this should be good . according to quickload it has just under 6 ft lbs of recoil for her rifle/ scope weight of 7.5 lbs . since I wanted to keep the low recoil , the only adjustment I had to play with is seating depth . I loaded 5 at 2.800 , 5 at 2.770 , 5 at 2.730 , and 5 at 2.690 . I was going to go in .040 steps but I goofed on the one step , it was .030 . yesterday I took the rifle to the range not sure what to expect . I figured I'd be happy with under 2 inch groups at 100 yards . it was so windy , 40+ mph gusts ,that I didn't even try to use my chrony to verify velocity it would have blown over . quickload has been very close for me in the past so I hope it is accurate on this one too .these are my targets .
seating depth 2.800
seating depth 2.770
seating depth2.730
seating depth 2.690
after seeing this one I'm thinking not bad at all , but it could be a one time wounder . I loaded up my stuff and came home . reseated the other ammo to the 2.690 length and loaded up enough to make 20 for today . I took the new shooter to the range with this load to see if she could handle it . I put a target up at 50 yds for her . she shot two shots . with a big smile , it didn't hurt. I told her we need to go to 100 yds that she is wasting ammo . LOL
*
she then shot three low shots . I moved the scope up , to far , and she shot 3 more high .
then I moved the scope back down to where it should be . her group opened up some on this target but it is still way better than I ever expected .
with her group opening up I ask her if her shoulder is getting tired . it was . we took about a 30 or 45 min rest and had a pepsi .
then I hung an old deer target at 100 for her . I explained where to aim , and I used a sharpie to kind of put the front shoulder crease on it . her third shot is in the black sharpie line , about a half inch below the other two shots .
I think she is ready . my Dad has spent a fair amount of time with her shooting the BB gun a lot , and the 22 some . it sure paid off on her shooting skills . Jim
she sure was proud of herself . she shot 14 shots and still was smiling, so I guess the recoil is ok . I'd say if she gets a decent shot it will be a dead deer . what really surprises me is this is a savage axis rifle that was bought as a ready to go combo with a very cheap bushnell scope . the scope we feel has already failed , so I talked him into a 3-9 prostaff scope . this is a $250 rifle with a $125 scope . it really needs a trigger , I weighed it at a little over 6 pounds . who wants to put a $100 trigger in a $250 rifle . LOL bottom line , she shoots it well and that is all that matters . thanks again guys . Jim
I want to pass along some info on these reduced recoil loads . I know a young girl that is wanting to hunt this year . her dad bought her a 308 . it was way to much recoil for her . he then bought her the reduced recoil factory load from a few different companies , these were still to much for her . Oct 20 is the first day of youth doe season . they dropped off her rifle and a new prostaff scope Oct14 .a few days before they told me that the rifle stopped grouping and the recoil is to much for her .we talked and I had him check for loose screws and everything seemed ok . so we decided the scope could be the problem . I mounted the new scope and made up a reduced recoil load .I'm using a Nosler ballistic tip 125 grain . it recommends a min of 1800 FPS . I ran through my quickload and found the powder amount that will give 1923 FPS at 100 yards . it also gives over 1000 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards . I feel this should be good . according to quickload it has just under 6 ft lbs of recoil for her rifle/ scope weight of 7.5 lbs . since I wanted to keep the low recoil , the only adjustment I had to play with is seating depth . I loaded 5 at 2.800 , 5 at 2.770 , 5 at 2.730 , and 5 at 2.690 . I was going to go in .040 steps but I goofed on the one step , it was .030 . yesterday I took the rifle to the range not sure what to expect . I figured I'd be happy with under 2 inch groups at 100 yards . it was so windy , 40+ mph gusts ,that I didn't even try to use my chrony to verify velocity it would have blown over . quickload has been very close for me in the past so I hope it is accurate on this one too .these are my targets .
seating depth 2.800
seating depth 2.770
seating depth2.730
seating depth 2.690
after seeing this one I'm thinking not bad at all , but it could be a one time wounder . I loaded up my stuff and came home . reseated the other ammo to the 2.690 length and loaded up enough to make 20 for today . I took the new shooter to the range with this load to see if she could handle it . I put a target up at 50 yds for her . she shot two shots . with a big smile , it didn't hurt. I told her we need to go to 100 yds that she is wasting ammo . LOL
*
she then shot three low shots . I moved the scope up , to far , and she shot 3 more high .
then I moved the scope back down to where it should be . her group opened up some on this target but it is still way better than I ever expected .
with her group opening up I ask her if her shoulder is getting tired . it was . we took about a 30 or 45 min rest and had a pepsi .
then I hung an old deer target at 100 for her . I explained where to aim , and I used a sharpie to kind of put the front shoulder crease on it . her third shot is in the black sharpie line , about a half inch below the other two shots .
I think she is ready . my Dad has spent a fair amount of time with her shooting the BB gun a lot , and the 22 some . it sure paid off on her shooting skills . Jim
she sure was proud of herself . she shot 14 shots and still was smiling, so I guess the recoil is ok . I'd say if she gets a decent shot it will be a dead deer . what really surprises me is this is a savage axis rifle that was bought as a ready to go combo with a very cheap bushnell scope . the scope we feel has already failed , so I talked him into a 3-9 prostaff scope . this is a $250 rifle with a $125 scope . it really needs a trigger , I weighed it at a little over 6 pounds . who wants to put a $100 trigger in a $250 rifle . LOL bottom line , she shoots it well and that is all that matters . thanks again guys . Jim
Been away for a couple days and came back to check this thread and wow - some great replies and helpful information. Thanks everyone for the great insight. I need to re-read a couple times and do a little research on some of the suggestions.
I do reload, so I have some flexibility to try some of the lower loads for practice and optimize field loads for accuracy.
I'm not familiar with many of the suggested calibers, so I have some reading to do to come up to speed.
Thanks!
I do reload, so I have some flexibility to try some of the lower loads for practice and optimize field loads for accuracy.
I'm not familiar with many of the suggested calibers, so I have some reading to do to come up to speed.
Thanks!
jimbires
Well-Known Member
Bookworm , I 'm trying to show how much a 308 can be de-tuned . I would have never bought one for a new youth shooter , but after playing around with it I have a more open mind towards it. I 'm sure not trying to push the savage axis either , what a piece of crap that rifle is. I would be tempted to buy a quality rifle in 308 for a youth hunter now , is my point . Jim
Hi jimbires - yes, I definitely get your experiment and it sounds like it's working out well for you. The idea of having a .308 that can be tuned up or down is fairly attractive for sure. I do have one question...
With the loads you ended up with, what do you think the effective range would be for deer and elk? I'm wondering how much the loads would have to be tuned up to stretch out to say 300yds for elk...and what the resulting recoil might be.
With the loads you ended up with, what do you think the effective range would be for deer and elk? I'm wondering how much the loads would have to be tuned up to stretch out to say 300yds for elk...and what the resulting recoil might be.
liltank
Well-Known Member
I found a good load with 38grn of Varget and 150grn Hornady SPT Interelocks for my son and my .308. He handles the recoil rather well.
Tank
Tank
jimbires
Well-Known Member
I'm going to say the load I have her using would be about a 150 yard whitetail load . I'm just not sure I'd want to hunt an elk with a 125 grain .308 diameter bullet , the S.D. of it would not be good . for a 300 yard elk rifle , with low recoil I think I'd be looking at a 260 or maybe a 6.5x55 these 6.5 140 grain bullets will have a higher S.D. to help with penetration . the recoil is lower than the 308 to start with so you can load to a more realistic velocity .if you already have a 308 then I'd load lighter loads, with maybe a 150 grain bullet , and work your way up to see how much your youth can handle . here is a recoil chart that could help you out, while comparing different cartridges . Rifle Recoil Table
and here is the Hodgdon youth load info . http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
I have a reloading Manuel that has some reduced recoil loads in it too , if you want any of that info let me know . I'm using IMR4198 powder in this 308 . quickload will also give the estimated recoil for your handloads . if I can help you with the quickload info let me know . Jim
the guys on here will probably have a better idea on the max range of my load .
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Jim - very useful info - thanks again. Slightly off topic, but do you feel like Quickload was a good investment? Seems like it puts out some good info. What do you find yourself using it for most?
I'm relatively new to reloading (~2 years) and I find myself playing around with different combinations of components. Seems like it would save time and money to narrow down to the loads that give the most promise.
I'm relatively new to reloading (~2 years) and I find myself playing around with different combinations of components. Seems like it would save time and money to narrow down to the loads that give the most promise.
jimbires
Well-Known Member
I really like quickload . I've had it maybe 3 or 4 years and I'm sure it does more than I know . I use it a lot for the what if's . what if I try this powder or what if I use that bullet , or how much powder to get X velocity . in the case of this 308 I had about 5 days to try and make a load for her , before her youth deer hunt. I have a book that gave the IMR4198 info . I wanted to be sure X amount of powder would give over 1800FPS with the 125 grain ballistic tip bullet . I tried to load as low as I could but be sure the bullet would preform properly . then with that load info plugged in quickload I was then able to add her rifle and scope weight and get the recoil generated . I think the min powder amount gave recoil in the mid 5 ft lbs . so I then added one grain of powder and brought the velocity up and only brought the recoil up to about 6 FT LBS . I built this load with recoil being the #1 priority , the #2 was enough velocity to make the bullet expand . without quickload I would of had a lot of messing around trying to figure this all out . with quickload it only took minutes . I'd say it's well worth the investment . Jim
rscott5028
Well-Known Member
If you don't have a chrony, I recommend you purchase that first. Then, you can simply shoot a ladder test starting with a minimum load and working up until you hit the desired velocity or accuracy, or whatever your priority is.
If you already have a chrony, then QuickLoad has a lot to offer for modelling your options. ...especially when it comes to building rifles where you're spending a lot on barrels with a certain length, twist, cartridge, etc... that aren't as easily manipulated after the build as simple load data.
-- richard
