WSM Casing life

[Snowbird]

it's possible i've over worked the brass. i will check the fired neck I.D. when i get home.
i should mention that the federal nickle plated casings were demilled factory rounds that i then resized. i found them locally for about $1 a piece already primed with fed 215m, which is what i'm using. two of the dozen i fired once have split. the norma brass has been annealed about every 3rd firing w/o any split necks. those i've picked up for about $1.75 each. prep was minimal work.

the firearm is a factory Tikka T3 w/ the factory 24" sako barrel.

 

[Timber338]

10thou variance huh?
I think you mean 1-1.5thou.......

WIN reloading brass in WSM is not the thickest, but it's as thick as hundreds of other cartridges.
It's NOT too thin.
Grab any 30-06 based case & compare.

Not a typo... .010". The thinnest section was .006" and the thickest was .016", in the same piece of brass. You could visually see the thickness varation with the naked eye. Split after the first firing.

The Nosler brass I use now is nominal .014" thick with a variance of .001.

 

[AZShooter]

Snowbird:

do OD of fired unsized case and OD of sized case with sizer ball removed. Then we can see just how much you are working the brass. I think we will be surprised how much that brass is expanding and over sized.

Did you know you can specify a specific neck diameter inside a FL die so you don't have to use a sizer ball? Just one more alternative to the typical one size fits all FL die with sizer ball. A bushing die is more common. Either way the brass is worked less.

 

[Snowbird]

Snowbird:

do OD of fired unsized case and OD of sized case with sizer ball removed. Then we can see just how much you are working the brass. I think we will be surprised how much that brass is expanding and over sized.

Did you know you can specify a specific neck diameter inside a FL die so you don't have to use a sizer ball? Just one more alternative to the typical one size fits all FL die with sizer ball. A bushing die is more common. Either way the brass is worked less.

.3030 OD resized w/ ball

.3080 OD fired

.3010 OD resized w/o ball

i read that lee did some work if you sent your dies back but i was unaware they took custom orders. that's a good tip.

 

[AZShooter]

Looking at your measurements there is quite a bit of brass diameter changing.

After firing there is some springback so lets say it is 309 when fired then back to 308.

the size changes go like this:

fire: 310
run into FL die 301
run over sizer ball 303
seat bullet 306 (guessing as most FL dies make .003 neck tension

Should you ever decide to make another 270 WSM a reamer with a smaller neck dimension would certainly help.

IMO if you like using Win brass the best you can do is get a bushing die so you are not reducing diameter more than necessary. Will probably have to anneal the Win brass often. Or just use Norma brass.

Interesting problem thanks for sharing.

 

[Snowbird]

Thanks for the help. i plan to anneal this batch and watch the necks closely. i will also make some adjustments to how i'm sizing until i can purchase the right tools. i've been doing a little research and came across this article: The Rifleman's Journal: Basics: Neck Tension

it looks like i have a lot to learn if i want to be precise and consistent with my reloading. and here i thought i was doing a pretty good job currently. oh well, live and learn.

 

[AZShooter]

I think you were doing a good job but the brass/chamber/dies threw you a curve. If you get a Redding S bushing die and a body bump die I am sure you can extend the life of your brass.

 

[Mikecr]

Snowbird, unless you actually intend to learn everything the hardest way, you should probably pick up a couple books and learn about clearances, brass behavior, neck tension(actual), and brass sizing, etc.
I suggest the same for many here..

Your necks never were 'too thin' as implied here. I shoot with considerably thinner necks than yours, and can do so for the rest of my life, without ever splitting necks -with zero annealing.
-You're flat out sizing too much.
-Don't reload Win WSM factory & 'plated' cases, as they're not 'reloading brass'. Winchester sells reloading brass.
-And don't trim brass to the shortest in a lot. This alone could be contributing to your ES.

 

[FEENIX]

Don't reload Win WSM factory & 'plated' cases, as they're not 'reloading brass'. Winchester sells reloading brass..

Please elaborate! Are you saying the WW brass used in the factory loaded ammo NOT the same as WW virgin brass?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Not a typo... .010". The thinnest section was .006" and the thickest was .016", in the same piece of brass. You could visually see the thickness varation with the naked eye. Split after the first firing.

The Nosler brass I use now is nominal .014" thick with a variance of .001.

The .014 of your Nosler brass is spec.

I examine all my brass. Skim turn almost all of it. .014 uniform is my goal.

IIWM discard any brass with any portion of the neck less than .012 in a WSM.

Anneal if you can. it helps a great deal.

 

[Timber338]

-And don't trim brass to the shortest in a lot. This alone could be contributing to your ES.

I'm interested more details on this comment ... are you just trying to avoid removing too much material and ending up with a neck that is too short?

I also re-read my earlier post on thin necks, and I think I could have put more thought into what I wrote. I really was turned off by the variation I was always getting in neck wall thickness of Winchester brass. I agree that thinner necks are not a problem other than they get worked more than thicker brass, but with proper sizing it wasn't too much of an issue. I would cull out brass with thin sections less than .010" thick, and turn the rest so that my target thickness was .011".

Of everybody else here who has used Winchester WSM brass, did I just get unlucky with the brass I ended up with ?

I do know that once I took the time to turn my necks and anneal all of my Win brass, I significantly improved the accuracy and ES/SD from my reloads.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm interested more details on this comment ... are you just trying to avoid removing too much material and ending up with a neck that is too short?

Yes. Keep only brass that meets your specs. Recycle the short ones.

I also re-read my earlier post on thin necks, and I think I could have put more thought into what I wrote. I really was turned off by the variation I was always getting in neck wall thickness of Winchester brass. I agree that thinner necks are not a problem other than they get worked more than thicker brass, but with proper sizing it wasn't too much of an issue. I would cull out brass with thin sections less than .010" thick, and turn the rest so that my target thickness was .011".

Pretty thin for a WSM but not gonna say it won't work.

Of everybody else here who has used Winchester WSM brass, did I just get unlucky with the brass I ended up with ?

I've never seen anything like your neck variation, so, yes a pretty freak lot

I do know that once I took the time to turn my necks and anneal all of my Win brass, I significantly improved the accuracy and ES/SD from my reloads.

Should. Works for me that way.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I forgot and don't know of anyone said this.

I use regular primers.

Dropped my ES to 8. The magnum primers work well for me in long cases but not in the WSM. Power column is the same length as a 308 just fatter.

 

[FEENIX]

I forgot and don't know of anyone said this.

I use regular primers.

Dropped my ES to 8. The magnum primers work well for me in long cases but not in the WSM. Power column is the same length as a 308 just fatter.

Will have to give that a try, thanks Fred!

Ed