Bigeclipse
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Ok thanks! Maybe on my other rifle I will start with NS. This one I will stick to FL
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working load, proper shooting technique help!
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Ok thanks! Maybe on my other rifle I will start with NS. This one I will stick to FL
Bigeclipse
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Not sure how one would use this with a tripod style front bench rest and rear bag combo?
7magcreedmoor
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Let me answer two questions here. Your earlier one about padding for the front rest- I found I had to let some of the filler out of the sandbag that came with my Rock Jr, so it had a little give to it, it was too **** hard as shipped. You should be able to squirm the fore-end around a little, being able to feel the filler shift just a little inside the bag, but it shouldn't feel "floppy", if that makes sense. That way the rifle doesn't want to roll around on the bag when you are in firing position. I position the rifle so the bag is under the objective lens of my scope- every time the same. This allows for recoil without the sling stud hitting the bag. I also have a cloth cover on the bag so the stock slides freely, no dragging. When you shoot, the rest itself should not be disturbed during recoil.
Now as for sling use: I don't use it to shoot on the bench, only field positions. I have a sling which mimics a 1907 style military sling, for which you can find many informative videos on youtube. I can use it prone with my backpack as a front sandbag, with my left hand on the bag, rifle cradled in the open hand. I usually don't, though, as I like to run backpack front rest, rear bag rest for any shot where I have time to get set up prone. Where the sling method really shines is sitting or kneeling with shooting sticks, where I am not able to use any rear support anyway, unless I am able to get my right elbow hooked out over my right knee (sometimes I can, sometimes the height/angle/ground clutter just won't allow it). Having the sling pull the rifle back into the shoulder firmly, and down on the front support at the same time, makes for a pretty solid sight picture, and a fairly stable recoil motion, and allows fast bolt work for the follow-up if needed.
Bigeclipse
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Thanks. I was confused at first I thought you meant to use sling with the front rest at thr range. Thanks for clarification. I do think my front rest bag is too full and I think I will remove some of it. Thanks for the tips!
WildRose
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Yep. You'll never get the same kind of consistency FL resizing that you will neck sizing only with most rifles.
Bigeclipse
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I think he was saying for me not to go neck sizing if I will be testing off of full sized reloads since they would be likely very different. Sounds like I would have to do another round of OCW/ladder testing with neck sized only cases which unfortunately I have already loaded up all my rounds. Im going to do this test and if I get any load at or under1MOA that is all I need for this rifle out to 400yards.
7magcreedmoor
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I use comparator shoulder bump gauges to measure fired cases, then select the appropriate Redding competition shellholder to match the fired dimension so that the case shoulder is not being set back more than .002" during resizing. The comp shellholder set is cheaper than replacing your FL dies with neck bushing dies. Some folks just back the regular FL die out of the press slightly, but that can produce some inconsistencies that you won't like.
Bigeclipse
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Ok...sorry im trying to grasp what you said. So basically I would be using my full length die still but with new shellholders which depending on what I wanted would either allow me to bump the shoulder back a bit with out full length resizing?
Canadian Bushman
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I know some guys with some really accurate rifles tha FL size everytime, but some of my best shots/groups were shot with 1st time necksized brass.
My only issue is every 2 or 3 firings i gotta bump shoulders and that changes things a bit. So during a NS cycle the consistency is very good but that cycle will only last a few firings before you have to adjust for bumped brass. Whereas if you FL size every time you dont have to deal with this.
That was what i meant.
If you have a stable load, it might not bother your accuracy, but it will probably slow things down a bit. My NS loads are slower by aprx 10-20 fps than my FL sized loads. Hard to say if they are less accurate. I dont keep very good notes.
7magcreedmoor
Well-Known Member
Many reloaders, me included, don't full-length resize the cases when loading for one specific rifle chamber. There are several ways to accomplish this. One can buy "neck-sizing only" dies, which put no pressure on any part of the cartridge case except the neck (this is popular with benchrest shooters), or you can adjust the way your standard FL die works the case. The "quick and dirty" way is to simply unscrew the die slightly from its "according to the directions" position, retighten the lock ring, and have at it. The better way is to buy "competition shellholders" which are machined with "over-length" dimensions in increments of .002". You still set up the die in the standard fashion, screwing the die into the press until a slight camming or tension is felt at the end of the stroke. This tension is important for consistency in the final headspace length, and is not easily obtained with the "back the die out" method. When I work up a load for a new rifle, I start with a charge near the middle of what the manual calls for during break-in, and measure the headspace of these fired cases afterward. I then start with the +.010" shellholder, and see what that gives me, moving to the next shellholder until I find the one that moves the shoulder back the least amount. That one is recorded in the log as the "use for this rifle" shellholder until the barrel is worn out and replaced. I do periodically recheck the headspace on fired shells to make certain nothing has changed in the rifle (not likely, but I have heard of bolt lugs being set back by real hot loads, so I check it for the same reason I buy car insurance, and keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen). The takeaway here is that a set of competition shellholders is cheaper than buying specialty dies for each cartridge you want to load, and you only need one set for each case head size you have, i.e. standard or magnum diameter.
Canadian Bushman
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You can use your FL die for neck sizing or full length sizing depending how far you run the case into the die.
However for the majority of calibers the fl die will begin to size the body of the case pretty early on so by the time you size the neck the die will have reduced the dia of the body, eliminating the main goal of neck sizing. This will also many times stretch the case length wise, increasing headspace, and the cartridge will no longer fit in the rifle until you run the die far enough to push the shoulder back again. Now you have officially FL sized the case.
The severity of this condition depends on the length and taper of the cartridge and the cut of the chamber.
A neck size die is cut with a chamber reamer not a resize reamer and will not reduce the body of a case unless your chamber is well oversize.
ShootnMathews
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+1. I'm lucky that most of my rifles get .0025" of bump when camming over hard on the die with a plain shellholder
ShootnMathews
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There are exceptions. My 6.5-284 that I've been load working, with NS brass shoots 1/4 MOA, which is good, but if I FL size the brass with the exact same load it shoots one ragged bug hole.
