Wolves gone wild.

[Edge Guy]

I have wasted a lot of my time reading a lot of this thread and I will say that I have had quite a few laughs. I am not going to say that I entirely disagree with Swamprat as a few guys have dubbed him here. I would have no problem with a bunch of 70 lb. timber wolves hunting in packs of 2 or 3 here in North Idaho. I think the part of the argument that was missed was the fact that he was defending the introduction (not reintroduction) of a foreign species that is a superior predator that our ecosystem is not capable of handling. So to maybe cut the guy some slack maybe he meant the Timber wolves were cool and he wants to wipe out all of the grey wolves because they are not native to the lower 48 and were mistakenly introduced by treehuggers. It's no different than the small mouth bass issues we had on a local lake here that were supposed to bring in big tourist dollars with fishing tournaments and guide services. Oops, they ate all the Kokanee and took bag limits from 50 a day to 3 a day in a matter of 5 yrs. Who did the fish and game blame for the low numbers....over fishing! never mind that until a few years ago the bag limit had been 50-100 since regulation have been enforced. What about the Japanese beetles, bark beetles, etc. They introduce species with the guise of helping the ecosystem and then point the finger at everyone else when the species doesn't die following the first frost. That's my two cents, kill all the grey wolves and leave the native species (the timber wolf) alone! Sadly the 100 or so native timber wolves they had in MN are probably dead now that the grey wolves were allowed to run free and kill the competing dogs which they like to do so very much.gun)

 

[harrogate11]

I just finished watching Big Game video about the wolf problem in the west. You guys south of my border appear to have a problem that you can take of. You have the equipment that we do not up here,(silence)and you guys certainly have the moxy to do what is right. Every wants to do the right thing,but sometimes a man gotta do what a man gotta do. The activists up here have put a stop to just about everything and now coyotes have become a real problem, the little critters are not afraid of man anymore and they are everywhere. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOUR COUNTY!gun)

 

[jmden]

This just in from Big Game Forever. Let's NOT let this happen!

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Folks,

I am sending you the official plan from the federal government to place wolves in the Southern Rockies. Every sportsman in America needs to see this plan. These plans will spread wolves into 97.5% of all elk in America.

Here is what they are doing: Baca National Wildlife refuge in Southern Colorado will have wolves transplanted in 2012 if portions of this plan are implemented. Baca is much, much smaller than Yellowstone. It is only 70 Miles from Northern New Mexico. It is only 250 Miles from Southern Utah and Northern Arizona. Wolves can travel that far in less than a week.

Yellowstone National Park was used to introduce wolves to the Northern Rockies. Without your help, history will repeat itself this year in the Southern Rockies.

See the official plan for yourself at the link below (look on page 8, bottom of the first column where they mention the introduction of wolves in Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge).

http://www.fws.gov/alamosa/planning/slv_ccp_update2_web2.pdf

Here is how you can help stop these plans:
(1) Spread the word: Send this email to 10 friends and ask them to forward this email to more friends.
(2) Join the Fight: If you haven't already, sign the online petition to stop these wolf expansion plans at Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
(3) Take Action: It only takes 30 seconds to send a message to your representatives in Congress to stop these plans. Simply go to Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations and click the "Take Action" button to send a message in support of two bills in Congress, S. 249 and H.R. 509, the Big Game and Livestock Protection Act. Without S. 249 and H.R. 509, it will be very difficult to slow down these plans to expand wolves throughout 97.5% of all elk in America.

Without a very substantial outcry from sportsmen and livestock owners, wolves will very likely be placed in Colorado this year. While attempts have been made to dismiss the use of wolves as "not the preferred alternative," now that they are an official part of the plan, we are one very small step away from having wolves introduced into Baca National Widlife Refuge. We can't leave this to chance.

Over 10,000 messages have already been sent to Congress to stop the plans to put wolves in the Baca, but we need many, many more. Especially from the 600,0000 hunters in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah.

We need all need to join the fight to stop this from happening. Remember, Idaho's elk harvest has been cut in half by wolves. Wolves have been a huge burden for livestock producers. Without substantial changes to the underlying statutes, it is a bad idea to spread these failed policies to the Southern Rockies.

Here are some news articles about these plans for wolves in Colorado.

Wolves to be considered for culling elk herds - The Pueblo Chieftain: Colorado State And Regional News

Wildlife Refuge May Use Wolves To Control Elk Population - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver

Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk

Wildlife officials consider wolves to control elk

Wolf Release Programs in Colorado? | Pagosa Springs News & Vacation Information

We are continuing to research this developing story. We will keep you apprised as developments arise.

Thanks for your willingness to join the fight to protect our ranching and outdoor heritage.
--
Ryan Benson
Big Game Forever - Protecting Big Game Abundance for Future Generations
[email protected]

Big Game Forever, LLC | 314 West Broadway #200, Salt Lake City, Utah 84101


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Please take the 3 actions listed under "Here is how you can help stop these plans...". Let's let congress know very clearly where we stand on this issue!

If you haven't already, please consider joining Big Game Forever: http://biggameforever.org/how-you-can-help.php



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[270 lefty]

Thats scary 250 miles from southern Utah. the San Juan unit is one of the best in the state for Elk and the Henry mountians is one of the best in the world for mule deer. I know the Wolves are already in the Northern part of the state I've heard them in the uinta mountians. I feel for all these states that had these Demon dogs unleashed on them. And now they are getting into my state I'm sick. lets all go to the above post and do our part.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Please read my entire post on this same BS on the other thread he put this on as it is not true!!!


Read This As It's C/Pd Right From A Newspaper Article Out In Alamosa,CO: Right now, it's a question. You have a lot of elk, a lot of people would say you need a large predator," said Laurie Shannon, a planning team leader for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "We may not move forward with it, but right now it's on the table."
The mention of wolves takes up only one sentence in a 13-page document laying out the potential management strategies for the Alamosa, Baca and Monte Vista national wildlife refuges

 

[jmden]

After seeing how the introduction of wolves to the Yellowstone area and ID was accomplished, with 'rules' and numbers and timelines changing so often, I don't have much faith in the feds doing what they say they are going to do or not going to do, especially with extreme environmentalist groups pushing their lawsuit happy agenda.

If it is in the plan at all, you can also bet the extreme environmentalist groups will be pushing it and suing as necessary. We've seen this before. "Oh...were only going to have 300 wolves." Sound familiar? Don't let them get a foot in the door is what I say.

There are already wolves in the southwest, the feds don't need to introduce anymore.

You can bet this list of folks from the Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project ( Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project - Coalition Partners -- check out this list) will be watching this closely.

Topgun, what do you think we should do?

Give us links to your research and help us understand your point of view, OK?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

All you need to do is read the multi page options they are considering that is in the link. The one sentence in Plan c states that they may look at a wolf introduction, but nothing will be finalized until 2014 at the earliest. Therefore , they would have to come up with an actual proposal and then have that open for further comments under fed requirements. Do like I did and register your thoughts against any wolf introduction during the comment period that's open until 2/25. When you do please use common sense and do it in a civil manner stating your reasons. For BGF to come out saying the wolves are going to be placed into the Baca this year like they did in that email is just plain false and the way they and SFW operate.

 

[jmden]

All you need to do is read the multi page options they are considering that is in the link. The one sentence in Plan c states that they may look at a wolf introduction, but nothing will be finalized until 2014 at the earliest. Therefore , they would have to come up with an actual proposal and then have that open for further comments under fed requirements. Do like I did and register your thoughts against any wolf introduction during the comment period that's open until 2/25. When you do please use common sense and do it in a civil manner stating your reasons. For BGF to come out saying the wolves are going to be placed into the Baca this year like they did in that email is just plain false and the way they and SFW operate.

If BGF and SFW are 'hyping' the situation too much, it will come back to bite them in terms of credibility. I'm curious where BGF gets the 2012.

 

[Coyboy]

The earliest it could possibly happen is December 2012.
It's an election year boys and there's one guy in a white house that doesn't need to PO anymore people.

If he is still their in 2013, "wolf on"

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

This proposal is very typical of how the federal agencies try and manipulate public input and opinion. They bundle different "options" in different options that they take comment on. The option with the wolf is bundled with other options that could appeal to non hunters, thereby garnering more positive comments. We can't pick and choose what we favor, only have their options to choose from.

The Forest Service and BLM used this same approach to their roadless plan and what options the public could choose/comment on. I will be writing my Congressman (who also represents Alamosa) with my comments on the wolf issue. I urger everyone to do the same. I will also be sending the letter to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commisioners.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I don't disagree with you at all, but you also need to comment directly to the USFWS using civil language during the comment period too. If you guys didn't follow the antics of the BFG and SFW on the northern wolf delisting in Montana and Idaho, here is the scoop. They fought behind closed doors to kill the rider that was finally passed in Congress and allowed the delisting of the wolf under the ESA guidelines, which has now allowed hunting up there to try and reduce the wolf numbers. Then when the rider went through and wolves were delisted they both came out and took credit for getting it done when, in actuality, they fought against it. The RMEF and NRA even put out statements in writing that the groups should not be trusted any longer when they (the NRA and RMEF) were wrongly listed in a letter by BGF/SFW as being in the same camp. It got pretty nasty! Haven't you guys been keeping up on all that? Now they are doing the same thing crying wolf on this Baca Refuge plan and will want lots of money coming into their coffers to supposedly fight for hunters when they don't have any transparency as to where the money they receive goes.

 

[jmden]

I don't disagree with you at all, other than you also need to commnet directly and civilly to the USFWS during the comment period too. If you guys didn't follow the antics of the BFG and SFW on the northern wolf delisting in Montana and Idaho, here is the scoop. They fought behind closed doors to kill the rider that was finally passed in Congress and allowed the delisting of the wolf under the ESA guidelines, which has now allowed hunting up there to try and reduce the wolf numbers. Then when the rider went thorugh and wolves were delisted they both came out and took credit for getting it doen when, in actuality they fought against it. The RMEF and NRA even put out statements in writing that the groups should not be truted any longer when they were wrongly listed in a letter by BGF/SFW as being in the same camp. haven't you guys been keeping up on all that? Now they are doing the same thing and it's surely only to get more money into their coffers.

Topgun,

Find those statements and show me! I want to see that with my own eyes. Give us the links to support what you are saying. Apparently I missed that exchange you mention above and want to make sure I know as best I can what is actually taking place.

 

[jmden]

Topgun,

Find those statements and show me! I want to see that with my own eyes. Give us the links to support what you are saying. Apparently I missed that exchange you mention above and want to make sure I know as best I can what is actually taking place.

This is all I've found so far. No specifics yet on exactly what was said:

From the NRA: NRA, SCI and CSF Disavow Misleading Press Release - NRAHuntersrights.org, NRA

From BGF in response: Big Game Forever Responds to NRA, SCI, CSF Release : The Outdoor Wire

Still not sure what the heart of the issue really is.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Sorry I mistakenly stated the RMEF in my post, as there are just too many darned organizations to try and keep track of! What you have posted is what I was referring to. Those organizations, especially the NRA, are some of the biggest ones representing and supporting the hunting/shooting sports while the SFW and BGF are small little operations trying to gain momentum any way they can. If you will notice in the response that they gave, they did not deny what was put out, but only that somebody screwed up and put it out on the internet for the world to see and read what they were really up to. I would think that alone should ring a bell and tell you they are not on the up and up. I don't have time to do all that work for you, as I spent hours going through all kinds of documents, memos, etc., that were circulating on the net when the wolf debacle was taking place up in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. The stuff is all there if you have the time to look it up, just like you did the letter I mentioned and was accurate on.