Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather SS

[brentc]

Bumping this thread...I know, I know. Don't hate me!

I just wanted to know if anyone that has bought this rifle lately has seen any improvements on the trigger, or is it basically the same steps in getting it down to 2.5-3lbs. Curious what the lightest anyone has gotten it down to. I'd like to see 2.5 lbs, but having to get a spring or have a gunsmith do extra work on it...kind of sucks, but probably worth it for such a nice rifle.

Seems like a lot of people get it in the 300wsm, not seeing a lot of 7rem mags...and i know it's hard as hell to try and find them in a 7wsm these days.

Timney now makes a trigger for the MOA, and it is an improvement. For a stock trigger though, the factory trigger is easy to adjust and it's a pretty good trigger if you can get it down to 2.5-3 lbs.

https://timneytriggers.com/timneystore/index.php?l=product_detail&p=62

 

[WildRose]

I have a Extreme Weather in 338 Win Mag. It's only a 2 or 3 shot rifle at best. The nicely fluted & skinny 26″ barrel is light for packing but is so thin, it won't hold a 5 shot group. 2 or 3 shots… wait 20 minutes to cool, shoot 2 or 3, and so on. This is unfortunate because this rifle is very well made. The Winchester long action magazine box is ridiculously short so the handloader will have difficulty taking advantage of longer bullets or seating depth adjustments without installing an extended magazine box. Lugs lock up perfectly and are better than 90% of the factory rifles out there. Trigger is outstanding from the factory and even better after I adjusted it for a lighter pull. Stock feels great and has no flex at the fore end. 26″ barrel is appreciated in this caliber. Recoil lug is nice and thick! Recoil isn't bad. Bolt cycles very smoothly. Spent shells sluggishly dribble out when ejected unless the bolt is cycled with authority. The bolt handle is short and my hand seems to bump the eyepiece of the scope when shot from the shoulder but it makes for a more compact carry and fits better in a scabbard. First 2 or 3 shots may be sub 1″. After that, it opens up to 2″ or worse to much worse. Frankly, I expected better. As a hunting rig, you'll like it just fine but don't have high expectations or any confidence that it will hold multiple tight 5-shot groups at the range without plenty of down time between groups. This rifle has many "accuracy features" that simply don't translate into accuracy. I talked to the Winchester repair facility in Missouri about accuracy. In this caliber, they said not to expect better than 2 MOA. There seems to be a major disconnect with Marketing and Operations since Winchester claims that with good optics and match quality ammo, sub MOA can be expected. For $1100.00, it should shoot lights out but money spent for factory rifles doesn't necessarily equate into accuracy.

Winchester – FN is really on the right track with these EW Model 70′s. I'd like to see longer magazine boxes and shorter throats. It wouldn't hurt my feelings either if their Extreme Weather rifles held a 10 shot group but I understand that this isn't a bench rifle and also appreciate the light carry weight. Rifle manufactures will eventually get it that people who shoot more than a few rounds per year to sight in, absolutely hate rifles that don't shoot. This explains the stampede to Tikka and Savage.

Since I handload, I'm having an extended magazine box installed to better adjust the seating depth of the bullets. I'm also bedding the action as the aluminum bedding block still doesn't insure a perfect fit. I still have high hopes of squeezing better accuracy from my rig.

This is a great hunting rifle and as a hunting rig, the compromises are all in the right place. It functions perfectly 100% of the time, is light enough and will put the first shots where your aiming. As such, it gets a B+. Since "hunting rifles" are only that when the crosshairs are on game, the other 99% of the time, they're target rifles. As such, it gets solid C.

I don't understand why anyone would get hung up on shooting 5 shot groups with a hunting rifle.

When you are hunting 99% of the time at most you will get one shot and then two follow ups or the critter gets away clean.

What matters is consistency and repeatability of the first cold bore shot every time, and secondarily the consistency of two quick follow up shots all in under 30 seconds.

Only in a tiny handful of situations will one get more than three shot opportunities on a given animal or have more than thirty seconds from the first time you pull the trigger until the animal is way out of range or off into cover where you lose sight of them.

 

[Mike 338]

I don't understand why anyone would get hung up on shooting 5 shot groups with a hunting rifle.

When you are hunting 99% of the time at most you will get one shot and then two follow ups or the critter gets away clean.

What matters is consistency and repeatability of the first cold bore shot every time, and secondarily the consistency of two quick follow up shots all in under 30 seconds.

Only in a tiny handful of situations will one get more than three shot opportunities on a given animal or have more than thirty seconds from the first time you pull the trigger until the animal is way out of range or off into cover where you lose sight of them.

I agree... sort of. Yeah, most animals I've taken were in the first shot. I wouldn't however say that was a 99%er. Plenty of times I didn't get them until the 3rd or 4th shot. I know, you hear someone in the woods empty his gun and you say to yourself, "there's another one that got away" but you never really know. Also, the 4th or 5th shots might be the only standing shot I get. I think every hunting rifle should group the first three shots well and I more or less expect the next one or two to open up a little but not a lot. That particular rifle wanted to shoot well and the first shot always was where it was suppose to be but it almost never put 3 in a row close. The 2nd or the 3rd shot would fly 1-1/2" to 2" out. It probably would have shot lighter bullets better but I don't want to shoot lighter bullets. Bottom line is I just didn't have the confidence I needed.

 

[WildRose]

I agree... sort of. Yeah, most animals I've taken were in the first shot. I wouldn't however say that was a 99%er. Plenty of times I didn't get them until the 3rd or 4th shot. I know, you hear someone in the woods empty his gun and you say to yourself, "there's another one that got away" but you never really know. Also, the 4th or 5th shots might be the only standing shot I get. I think every hunting rifle should group the first three shots well and I more or less expect the next one or two to open up a little but not a lot. That particular rifle wanted to shoot well and the first shot always was where it was suppose to be but it almost never put 3 in a row close. The 2nd or the 3rd shot would fly 1-1/2" to 2" out. It probably would have shot lighter bullets better but I don't want to shoot lighter bullets. Bottom line is I just didn't have the confidence I needed.

There's certainly no substitute for having confidence in whatever you are shooting.

That being said I just can't fathom 4-5 shots on the same target being necessary unless I was really screwing the pooch doing my part.

I finally got mine in, got it scoped and have put a few rounds down range with it and my only complaint so far is that it's just too light to shoot the .300wm caliber without a brake. There's simply no way to keep on target to see your hits/misses without a muzzle brake.

I really thought it had a heavier profile barrel from the description but it seems much closer to the featherweight than light varmint or even magnum contour. Haven't weighed it but it's certainly the lightest feeling 300wm I've ever had my hands on and the barrel flip is just nasty.

 

[WildRose]

Timney now makes a trigger for the MOA, and it is an improvement. For a stock trigger though, the factory trigger is easy to adjust and it's a pretty good trigger if you can get it down to 2.5-3 lbs.

https://timneytriggers.com/timneystore/index.php?l=product_detail&p=62

I got mine down considerably lower than that, just under 2lbs and I haven't honed it at all and it's already just baby smooth and breaking like glass with just 20 rounds down range so far.

This is a very nice trigger but I do like the old style.

 

[Mike 338]

That being said I just can't fathom 4-5 shots on the same target being necessary unless I was really screwing the pooch doing my part.

I finally got mine in, got it scoped and have put a few rounds down range with it and my only complaint so far is that it's just too light to shoot the .300wm caliber without a brake. There's simply no way to keep on target to see your hits/misses without a muzzle brake.

I really thought it had a heavier profile barrel from the description but it seems much closer to the featherweight than light varmint or even magnum contour. Haven't weighed it but it's certainly the lightest feeling 300wm I've ever had my hands on and the barrel flip is just nasty.

Ha Ha... I can certainly say that my percentage of first shot kills goes way up if I don't take any lower percentage shots such as jumping something in the timber. First & second shots either hit a tree, missed completely or were non-lethal hits. Your third or fourth shot might a standing or higher percentage shot in the open on the opposite side of the canyon. It's happened to me more than once. I also keep shooting until they're down. I once put two good shots on a bull, broke it's back with the 2nd shot and it still ran a quarter of a mile straight down the mountain on it's two front legs. That extra 400 yards made getting him out of there hell. I would have gladly put one or two more in him just to keep him where he was.

The muzzle measures at .590. It's pretty skinny, especially for my 338. I called the factory and asked them what kind of accuracy I should expect in a 338. The guy told me 2". That sort of bugged me because when I first was looking at them, I talked to a different factory rep and he told me 1". The 30 cal's seem to shoot quite nicely.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

So why are you taking low percentage shots in the first place if it's an unwounded animal? No animal deserves to be shot at on a wing and a prayer basis, whether it's a coyote or an elk IMHO!!!

 

[Mike 338]

So why are you taking low percentage shots in the first place if it's an unwounded animal? No animal deserves to be shot at on a wing and a prayer basis, whether it's a coyote or an elk IMHO!!!

Those are judgement calls that only the shooter is in a position to make. With the exception of archery which I don't do any more, I don't recall any big game not making it to the freezer. Opportunity is where you find it and if I waited for circumstances to be "just right" I never would have done anything. That said, I think we all pass on shots we think we shouldn't make.

Anyway, why does a hunting rifle need to group more than a couple shots? It probably doesn't but in my world, I'd feel better if it did.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

From your post previous to mine, if you read what you stated, you are saying you have take a number of "low percentage" shots, so I think my question was more than appropriate. You say first shots are hiitting trees, etc. and are talking about shooting at jumped running animals before you possibly get a good 3rd or 4th standing shot at a distance. Now you're responding again that it's up to the person doing the shooting. That's correct, but what you stated just doesn't sound like a responsible way to humanely take an animal. You say every game animal has gone in the freezer, but I would also question how you can make that statement if you're shooting at running game in heavy timber. I'm not trying to get into a big argument or anything, but I hope if you read your posts again that you could see why someone would be asking these questions.

 

[angus-5024]

So why are you taking low percentage shots in the first place if it's an unwounded animal? No animal deserves to be shot at on a wing and a prayer basis, whether it's a coyote or an elk IMHO!!!

coyotes always get shot at!

 

[WildRose]

From your post previous to mine, if you read what you stated, you are saying you have take a number of "low percentage" shots, so I think my question was more than appropriate. You say first shots are hiitting trees, etc. and are talking about shooting at jumped running animals before you possibly get a good 3rd or 4th standing shot at a distance. Now you're responding again that it's up to the person doing the shooting. That's correct, but what you stated just doesn't sound like a responsible way to humanely take an animal. You say every game animal has gone in the freezer, but I would also question how you can make that statement if you're shooting at running game in heavy timber. I'm not trying to get into a big argument or anything, but I hope if you read your posts again that you could see why someone would be asking these questions.

To be real honest, my dad, grand dads, and great grand dads would all get up out of their graves and flat beat the snot out of me for just flinging lead around the woods in such a manner.

If you don't have a clean shot don't pull the damned trigger.

I won't hesitate to take running shots but only in open country. Aside from the very high likelihood of game running off lost to die and be wasted in heavy cover you simply cannot track a running animal to get a clean shot while also being able to see absolutely everything that might be in the path of each bullet.

Damned good way to kill something, or even someone and never even know it because you are too busy and too focused on keeping the track while flipping another round in for the follow up.

To each their own, but **** I'm glad I don't have to worry about sharing hunts with people who take such low percentage, high risk shots.

If I had a client do that even once in the course of a guided hunt, the hunt would be over instantly with no refunds.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Amen WildRose!!!

 

[Mike 338]

From your post previous to mine, if you read what you stated, you are saying you have take a number of "low percentage" shots, so I think my question was more than appropriate. You say first shots are hiitting trees, etc. and are talking about shooting at jumped running animals before you possibly get a good 3rd or 4th standing shot at a distance. Now you're responding again that it's up to the person doing the shooting. That's correct, but what you stated just doesn't sound like a responsible way to humanely take an animal. You say every game animal has gone in the freezer, but I would also question how you can make that statement if you're shooting at running game in heavy timber. I'm not trying to get into a big argument or anything, but I hope if you read your posts again that you could see why someone would be asking these questions.

I believe I said "lower" instead of low. A small but notable difference.

Actually, I'm not 100% sure those shots hit trees. They just didn't hit the critter. I'll concede your point. It's hard to defend a position that the shot that missed was the right shot to make. I'm not proud of any shot that I've missed, none the less, I wouldn't have taken it if I didn't think I could make it. Also, I didn't say I only shoot running animals. I recall only 2 in the afore mentioned scenario. Everything else was standing, walking or such and to date, to the best of my recollection, they've all found the freezer. My point here is not to advocate shooting at running game but it illustrate how a hunter can find himself with a warm barrel and still need another well placed shot.

To be real honest, my dad, grand dads, and great grand dads would all get up out of their graves and flat beat the snot out of me for just flinging lead around the woods in such a manner.

If you don't have a clean shot don't pull the damned trigger.

I won't hesitate to take running shots but only in open country. Aside from the very high likelihood of game running off lost to die and be wasted in heavy cover you simply cannot track a running animal to get a clean shot while also being able to see absolutely everything that might be in the path of each bullet.

Damned good way to kill something, or even someone and never even know it because you are too busy and too focused on keeping the track while flipping another round in for the follow up.

To each their own, but **** I'm glad I don't have to worry about sharing hunts with people who take such low percentage, high risk shots.

If I had a client do that even once in the course of a guided hunt, the hunt would be over instantly with no refunds.

I approve of your fore fathers parenting methods.

Respectfully, you weren't there. Only in your imagination do those safety concerns exist. I might also point out that as a Guide, you have no clue who your sharing a hunt with yet somehow you know me? I've shared a camp a few times with the "I think, therefore I'm right" crowd. They're always getting into trouble. I'll try to contain my grief knowing that hunting with me is off your bucket list.

Curious... does your Winchester EW say " Morgan UT" on it?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

"Plenty of times I didn't get them until the 3rd or 4th shot. I know, you hear someone in the woods empty his gun and you say to yourself, "there's another one that got away" but you never really know. Also, the 4th or 5th shots might be the only standing shot I get"


So what is the real situation here? Go back and read all of the various comments you're made in your posts on this thread before the last couple where we've mentioned them. Now you come back at us and say it was only once or twice when previously you have stated things that make it look like that's a common occurence the way you hunt. However, you put that in that quoted post above and you don't expect any criticism, LOL! Read it to yourself and don't tell me that sounds like a guy that knows what in the he** he's doing to humanely and safely take an animal! I guess maybe you're also one of those that thinks because you use that .338 that you can shoot them in the tail and they'll drop! Maybe drop a tree or two on them with those first several shots that hit timber and that bull/buck will stop for the tree to fall before he keeps going! Sorry, but you have made way too many statements in all your posts for us not to think like that!