Winchester 1860 50-110

[Dean2]

I own a Winchester Model 1886 marked 50-100-450 on the barrel. Beautiful old rifle. I found some new, primed .348 brass that I fire-formed to make .50-100 brass, but the fire-forming process was not very satisfactory. I still have a box of the brass that was never fire-formed, and I'm thinking I might try neck annealing before fire-forming it. Or I might buy some Starline brass if I can find it. Don't need much -- it's not the kind of rifle you shoot a lot at a single sitting. I have never used it with black powder -- worked up a load with 3031 starting with .45-70 load info, since when I started developing the load (late sixties) there was no load date available for the .50.

The only game it has taken was one jack rabbit at about 50 yards. Explosive results!

To OP: I would be interested in more info and photos of your rifle when you get a chance. I'm guessing you have a Winchester 1886, because I don't think earlier models were manufactured in .50 caliber. That had to wait for the strength of the 1886. Possibly an 1885 single-shot, but I kind of doubt that. Please let us know what you find out!

You probably already know this but for the benefit of others, 50-100-450 is an alternate name for the 50-110 WCF. It denotes the original loading of 100 grains of Black powder with a 450 grain bullet. The cases are identical. With respect to the 348, the parent case was the 50-110 so dimensions match up, the major issue is getting the brass to 2.4" as the 348 case was shortened to 2.26. While you do gain some length from straightening the neck, you rarely get the full 2.4". Fireforming works if you have no other options, but buying brass made for the 50-110 when you can find it is far easier. Also, these are not guns you do a lot of high volume shooting iwth, so 100 brass will last a really long time.

 

[3chester]

You probably already know this but for the benefit of others, 50-100-450 is an alternate name for the 50-110 WCF. It denotes the original loading of 100 grains of Black powder with a 450 grain bullet. The cases are identical. With respect to the 348, the parent case was the 50-110 so dimensions match up, the major issue is getting the brass to 2.4" as the 348 case was shortened to 2.26. While you do gain some length from straightening the neck, you rarely get the full 2.4". Fireforming works if you have no other options, but buying brass made for the 50-110 when you can find it is far easier. Also, these are not guns you do a lot of high volume shooting iwth, so 100 brass will last a really long time.

A few gunsmiths also were known to take a Winchester Model 71, 348 Win and neck that back up to 45caliber, reliable lever gun rig, maybe little bit better, bear stopper.

 

[Dean2]

A few gunsmiths also were known to take a Winchester Model 71, 348 Win and neck that back up to 45caliber, reliable lever gun rig, maybe little bit better, bear stopper.

Yes and the 50 Alaskan was based on the 348 Winchester case as well, so effectively a 50-110 WCF with a case shortened to 2.1". (The 45 Calibre 348 is effectively a glorified 45-70.) With smokeless powder the loss in length is no big deal, and it means the 50 Alaskan can be used in a heavily modified Marlin 1895, which the 50-110 can't be. Even to convert a modern 1886 to the 50-110 takes an extensive amount of work and a gunsmith that really knows what they are doing, including adjusting the internals so they feed properly, especially with the 500 grain bullets and strengthening the magazine so the slide hammer effect under recoil doesn't rip it off the gun.

 

[epoletna]

You probably already know this but for the benefit of others, 50-100-450 is an alternate name for the 50-110 WCF. It denotes the original loading of 100 grains of Black powder with a 450 grain bullet. The cases are identical. With respect to the 348, the parent case was the 50-110 so dimensions match up, the major issue is getting the brass to 2.4" as the 348 case was shortened to 2.26. While you do gain some length from straightening the neck, you rarely get the full 2.4". Fireforming works if you have no other options, but buying brass made for the 50-110 when you can find it is far easier. Also, these are not guns you do a lot of high volume shooting iwth, so 100 brass will last a really long time.

Actually, Dean2, I did NOT know that. So thank you for the information. Mine is a beautiful rifle to look at, but as you so properly say, one does NOT need a lot of brass for the rifle. I would be happy with 20 pieces. And you are absolutely right about the .348 brass being shorter. Mine did flow a little when I fire formed them, but not evenly. That's why I am wondering about annealing them to get a more uniform expansion. But new brass would be a better choice.

 

[ntsqd]

Says "Backordered" as-of 23/07/23 @ 07:42AM

50-110 Win Brass - Large Rifle - Brass Cases

I didn't know that BELL was gone, MAST's "About us" page talks about that story. Too bad MAST isn't continuing with BELL's production since PMC discontinued it.

 

[Dean2]

Actually, Dean2, I did NOT know that. So thank you for the information. Mine is a beautiful rifle to look at, but as you so properly say, one does NOT need a lot of brass for the rifle. I would be happy with 20 pieces. And you are absolutely right about the .348 brass being shorter. Mine did flow a little when I fire formed them, but not evenly. That's why I am wondering about annealing them to get a more uniform expansion. But new brass would be a better choice.

To get the most length possible it works better to neck the case up to 50 calibre in stages. Use Imperial wax on the body and in the neck itself. Take it to 375 using 38-55 de-prime and sizer ball in your 50-110 dies, or any other 375 stem you have on hand, then to 45 using 45-70 de-prime sizer ball stem, then the 50-110 stem. You don't need to run the brass all the way in, just need to run them over the ball on the deprime stem until the last step when you run them all the way in. Your idea to anneal after the size up is sound. Then fire form them using the Cream of Wheat method (COW). This will get you as close to 2.4" as possible.

You can just buy the sizer balls pretty cheap and use them on the 50-110 stem if you don't have a large selection of dies laying around.

Reloading USA, Starline's 50-110 brass at $200 shipped for 100. That is actually a very good price for obsolete brass.

Cart | Reloading Brass Store

reloadingbrassusa.com

 

[epoletna]

To get the most length possible it works better to neck the case up to 50 calibre in stages. Use Imperial wax on the body and in the neck itself. Take it to 375 using 38-55 de-prime and sizer ball in your 50-110 dies, or any other 375 stem you have on hand, then to 45 using 45-70 de-prime sizer ball stem, then the 50-110 stem. You don't need to run the brass all the way in, just need to run them over the ball on the deprime stem until the last step when you run them all the way in. Your idea to anneal after the size up is sound. Then fire form them using the Cream of Wheat method (COW). This will get you as close to 2.4" as possible.

You can just buy the sizer balls pretty cheap and use them on the 50-110 stem if you don't have a large selection of dies laying around.

Thanks for this

 

[Dean2]

Reloading USA, Starline's 50-110 brass at $200 shipped for 100. That is actually a very good price for obsolete brass.

Cart | Reloading Brass Store

reloadingbrassusa.com

 

[3chester]

Reloading USA, Starline's 50-110 brass at $200 shipped for 100. That is actually a very good price for obsolete brass.

Cart | Reloading Brass Store

reloadingbrassusa.com

If ya can stand to wait, backorder from Starline, then they're only $1.21 each for 250pcs. or $1.07each if can use 500 pcs. If ya call them, sometimes they know when they are about to release them. Great outfit that Starline!

 

[Mike Matteson]

Thanks for all info guys. I'm headed back to the farm next week where the rifle is kept. I'll have more info when I return.
Thanks

I haven't seen one them in a very long time.

 

[epoletna]

Reloading USA, Starline's 50-110 brass at $200 shipped for 100. That is actually a very good price for obsolete brass.

Cart | Reloading Brass Store

reloadingbrassusa.com

Thanks. In cart, but I'll call Starline Monday.

 

[sendero72]

I found that Buffalo Arms in Idaho makes 50-110 ammo. Things are looking up!

 

[Dean2]

They do and it is very good ammo if it is like the other stuff of theirs I have shot. Not cheap though, at least up here.

 

[epoletna]

Not in stock, either. Bummer.