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Wildcat Bullets Update
- Thread starter WildcatB
- Start date
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B23
Well-Known Member
Oh well, maybe by the time they have all the bugs worked out and they are in production I'll be ready for a new barrel.
The 210 and 247 look to be well suited for the likes of Kirby's 300AX.
Do you have any idea what the BC will be on either of those????
The 210 and 247 look to be well suited for the likes of Kirby's 300AX.
Do you have any idea what the BC will be on either of those????
fireroad
Well-Known Member
Can you post a list of your current offerings in all calibers? Thanks!
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Eaglet,
I would be very suprised if the 247 gr AT needed more then a 1-8 twist. When Richard was playing with them, he made me some 290 gr ULD RBBT prototypes that were even a bit longer then the listed 247 gr by a few thou.
He wanted me to test them in my 1-8 twist 300 AX and I was more then happy to. The problem was not stability, it was integrity. At the velocity I was able to drive them to, about 75% of them came apart. I learned that the hard way, lost one muzzle brake and a chrono graph in that testing!!!
I was driving them to around 3100 fps and I would get as I mentioned, 1 out of 4 to land on target. Those that did were very accurate and obviously fully stabilized as I tested them out to a mile and the bullets that actually made it to the target were extremely consistant.
The problem when you get a bullet this long you need a relatively fast twist rate but there is a fine line between over spinning and keeping them stable. I am not talking about over stabilization, I am talking about the bullets being able to survive the launch speeds or should I say RPMs.
I am hoping and praying Paul can get these 30 cals figured out. My 300 AX is screaming for a good high BC bullet. If we could get one that would take the velocity, my 300 AX may be the best of the bunch between the 7mm AM, 300 AX and 338 AX.
Next step would be for him to figure a way to get them to survive a 3500 fps launch speed, I have a 300 Allen Magnum reamer sitting here that has never been used!!! Yep, that one is based on the 408 CT!!!
I was able to down load the 290 gr prototypes to where around 50% were surviving the launch but could do no better. I then tested them in a 1-8 twist 300 RUM to see if I could get them down in speed a bit more to see if they would survive and never could get consistant performance.
It all depends on the jackets, it was the problem back then and it still is, I hope Paul can get them figured out, I would love to have the AMs and AXs spitting wildcat bullets again. They are most impressive anyway but they become really special with the bullets they were designed around.
Take care old friend!!!!
I would be very suprised if the 247 gr AT needed more then a 1-8 twist. When Richard was playing with them, he made me some 290 gr ULD RBBT prototypes that were even a bit longer then the listed 247 gr by a few thou.
He wanted me to test them in my 1-8 twist 300 AX and I was more then happy to. The problem was not stability, it was integrity. At the velocity I was able to drive them to, about 75% of them came apart. I learned that the hard way, lost one muzzle brake and a chrono graph in that testing!!!
I was driving them to around 3100 fps and I would get as I mentioned, 1 out of 4 to land on target. Those that did were very accurate and obviously fully stabilized as I tested them out to a mile and the bullets that actually made it to the target were extremely consistant.
The problem when you get a bullet this long you need a relatively fast twist rate but there is a fine line between over spinning and keeping them stable. I am not talking about over stabilization, I am talking about the bullets being able to survive the launch speeds or should I say RPMs.
I am hoping and praying Paul can get these 30 cals figured out. My 300 AX is screaming for a good high BC bullet. If we could get one that would take the velocity, my 300 AX may be the best of the bunch between the 7mm AM, 300 AX and 338 AX.
Next step would be for him to figure a way to get them to survive a 3500 fps launch speed, I have a 300 Allen Magnum reamer sitting here that has never been used!!! Yep, that one is based on the 408 CT!!!
I was able to down load the 290 gr prototypes to where around 50% were surviving the launch but could do no better. I then tested them in a 1-8 twist 300 RUM to see if I could get them down in speed a bit more to see if they would survive and never could get consistant performance.
It all depends on the jackets, it was the problem back then and it still is, I hope Paul can get them figured out, I would love to have the AMs and AXs spitting wildcat bullets again. They are most impressive anyway but they become really special with the bullets they were designed around.
Take care old friend!!!!
B23
Well-Known Member
Sooooo, do you think there would be a snowballs chance in hell a 1-10 would work for the 210's??????
B23
Well-Known Member
I know this is probably asking alot since they, ie. 208amax, are nearly impossible to get right now but I would love to see a side by side pic of those two AL tipped Wildcat's next to a 208Amax.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
B23,
I know of one 300 RUM that is shooting the 220 gr Hensen aluminum tipped bullets very well but those are not nearly as aggressive as the 210 gr Wildcat will be.
I would say it would be marginal but stranger things have happened.
When I started my 7mm AM project with the 200 gr ULD RBBT wildcat, I asked Dan Lilja to develope THE barrel for that chambering and bullet. He came up with a 1-7 twist from the computer models and conventional wisdom. After several years and alot of out of pocket cost to replace customer barrels on my dime, we found out that the standard 1-9 twist was nearly perfect with this huge bullet in my 7mm AM. That may be different for a lesser chambering but I have always found many recommend far more twist then needed.
Another example is the 6mm bullets, mainly a 107 gr SMK for example. In a 6mm BR you need a 1-8 but in a 6-284, you can get by EASILY with a 1-9 twist barrel. Most recommend a bit more twist then needed because they want to make sure the bullet is stablized in all situations. The problem then comes in with our new wildcats that take performance out of the normal relm and then you run into other problems, namely bullet integrity.
Its a hard game to play, I am sure Paul would agree with that!!!
I know very soon he will have his own 7mm AM for bullet testing!! That should help him out alot.
I know of one 300 RUM that is shooting the 220 gr Hensen aluminum tipped bullets very well but those are not nearly as aggressive as the 210 gr Wildcat will be.
I would say it would be marginal but stranger things have happened.
When I started my 7mm AM project with the 200 gr ULD RBBT wildcat, I asked Dan Lilja to develope THE barrel for that chambering and bullet. He came up with a 1-7 twist from the computer models and conventional wisdom. After several years and alot of out of pocket cost to replace customer barrels on my dime, we found out that the standard 1-9 twist was nearly perfect with this huge bullet in my 7mm AM. That may be different for a lesser chambering but I have always found many recommend far more twist then needed.
Another example is the 6mm bullets, mainly a 107 gr SMK for example. In a 6mm BR you need a 1-8 but in a 6-284, you can get by EASILY with a 1-9 twist barrel. Most recommend a bit more twist then needed because they want to make sure the bullet is stablized in all situations. The problem then comes in with our new wildcats that take performance out of the normal relm and then you run into other problems, namely bullet integrity.
Its a hard game to play, I am sure Paul would agree with that!!!
I know very soon he will have his own 7mm AM for bullet testing!! That should help him out alot.
...that's a bit of an understatement.
About the 210's and the 247's, they are holding up as fast as I can push them in a 300 RUM.
If I could make my own jackets, I'm 100% positive that I could get them to hold together at 3600.... the equipment has been ordered, not sure when I'll get it in.
In the mean time I'm stuck with commercially available jackets.
For the 247's I'd say that 3300 (depending on barrel) is the limit. I accidentally put a bit too much powder, +5 grains
, in a load and got to 3260 - the bullet made a round hole. I had to hammer the bolt open. Very unsafe. Not recommended. They where coming apart at around 3000 until I found the right seating pressure and used a special seating punch that doesn't stress/stretch the jacket as much. I'm guessing that the 210's will make it to 3400. Again just a guess until I can actually test them at that speed. Speaking of, Kirby I look forward to the day when I can order a 300AM (not AX) - to really see how fast they'll hold up.
We have dies for 17, 204, 224, 243, 257, 264, 277, 284, 308 ,338, 358, 375, 510, & 585's. All are designed for heavy-for-caliber bullets.
Right now I'm limited by time more than anything. Can't keep up the the 7mm's - let alone the others. Hoping to move into a place where I can hire people and speed up production so I can catch up and start making/selling other calibers.
For regular production I'm going to stick with the heavy-for-caliber bullets for now. I'll make standard weights as a special order.
Oliveralan
Well-Known Member
Paul, when do you plan to move into a commercial building and hire more peopl? Frankly I just read a thread well over a year old saying the same thing. I am hesitent to build a gun for, or even to shoot Wildcat bullets till there is any measurable supply of them. Heck I just got screwed with the 208s from hornady, and they're a huge company. I hope you see where I'm coming from, and I doubt I'm the only one thinking this way.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Wildcat,
I have the reamer for the 300 AM, just give me the go ahead and we will get started. Will take a bit of time to get the dies made but we can do it!!!
Here are a couple pictures of your 7mm AM. Tide you over until the new dies get here and I can ship the rifle to you.
Keep at it!!
I have the reamer for the 300 AM, just give me the go ahead and we will get started. Will take a bit of time to get the dies made but we can do it!!!
Here are a couple pictures of your 7mm AM. Tide you over until the new dies get here and I can ship the rifle to you.
Keep at it!!
I fully understand. Been looking for a building for more than a year. Had a few places all ready to go then deals fell through. Have land and am now going to rent mobile offices while the new building is being built.
Yes...Hornady is huge and they can't keep up. I'm as small as they get. I can't keep up either.
