Why so many 6.5 saum's for sale?

[Greyfox]

Greyfox and JE Custom have made some very valid points regarding wildcats and the 6.5-284 Norma. Looking at the SAAMI cartridge list there is no mention of the 6.5-284 Norma cartridge that I could find which makes me wonder if Norma ever submitted it for approval and testing. I know that Norma submitted it to the European CIP but where does that leave American manufacturers? Any ideas?

You are correct! There is no 6.5x284 Norma listed in the SAAMI list for 2015. Not sure why as there have been many references stating such as shown below(example from Terminal Ballistics Research*). I tried finding it in prior SAMMI listings with no success. I doesn't seem to have stopped American manufacturers of rifles/barrels. As an example, Savage and Cooper have 6.5x284 chamberings, both used with dimensionally similar, Norma and Lapua brass. Aside from a .010" difference in seating depth to the lands, they are about identical in my two rifles. Having purchased barrels, most, but not all makers seem to follow a standardized reamer spec that is consistent with the chambers in my Cooper and Savage rifles. This is my preferred reamer spec used by Criterion(provided by James at Northland) which is comparable to my Savage and Cooper chambers.


* "Both the American Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI) and the European Commission of International Proof (CIP) have separate specifications for 6.5-284 reamers and case dimensions. American SAAMI chamber dimensions are based on .284 Winchester brass necked down to 6.5 which creates extra material thickness at the case neck. CIP dimensions are based on the Norma and Lapua brass which is thinner at the neck. Nevertheless, custom reamers are built to many varying specifications therefore it is imperative that shooters use the correct brass with the correct chamber."

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/6.5-284+Norma.html

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page18.pdf

 

[J E Custom]

I heard all the 6.5 SAUM guys are building the 6.5 PRC.........

Trouble maker !!!!
Not all of us are.

I decided to stay away from the short mag design, not for any particular reason because they have their place, except I have 3 in different calibers and wanted something easy to get quality brass for and performance in a short action and opted for something more common and easy to get brass for. I chose the 260 AI for my first 6.5 and i have been very happy with it.

I looked hard at the Creedmoor but decided that the 308 based case had more to offer and the AI added velocity over the Creedmoor.

To date I have reached 3000+ with 140 grain bullets and 3150 with the 120,s with no pressure signs.

I realize that an AI is considered a wildcat, but when set up right it will/can use the standard 260 ammo with great accuracy and performance.

ONE MORE CHOICE Of 6.5,s

J E CUSTOM

 

[Greyfox]

I have been invested in the 6.5x284 for so long with several rifles, that reloading for precision is a mindless excercise, and, I generally don't even need a ballistic calculator for my drops and wind calls out to 1000+ yards. I have no motivation to change.

 

[kiwikid]

Greyfox it's interesting to read that you too couldn't find any SAAMI listing for the 6.5-284 Norma. In the last 6 years while being on this site I have come to the conclusion that you are the Guru when it comes to the 6.5-284 Norma. What Nathan Forster at Terminal Ballistic Research has written doesn't really sound right. Until Norma standardized it with CIP the 6.5-284 Win was a wildcat and as far as I know SAAMI don't list wildcats. Hopefully at the end of September I will get to see Nathan at a gun show here in NZ and I will ask him.
Kiwikid.

 

[graywolf]

I've built and sold a couple of 6.5 SAUMs. Although its a very good cartridge, it took extra work to resize Norma 7 mm (or 300) SAUM because Hornady brass was such poor quality. Maybe there will be better 6.5 SAUM brass coming out, but I've moved on. My long range hunting rifle is 270 WSM now. Factory Norma brass is excellent and there are some very good 130-150 gr .277 bullets available that compare well with the BC of 6.5 bullets. Terminal performance is if anything better and suitable for pretty much any game IMO. There's a wide choice of factory rifles available. You can get factory ammo if you want. Wildcats can be fun for sure but its nice to have a reliable factory round.

 

[trucraft]

Thanks guys.
I can understand why people want the next new thing and then a year down the line the reality becomes a headache.
I have a 7 saum that requires neck turning. I neck down 300 Norma brass. So I can't see the 6.5 being any more of a pain with 7 saum brass and with a batch of 100 brass it only needs doing once.
Very few 6.5 suam here in the UK and that's one reason I like it. I'm not a vanilla kinda guy.

 

[Kimber7man]

I think the 6.5 SAUM brass issue is going to be less problematic this winter. Prime has announced factory ammo here: https://www.primeammo.com/ammunition/6-5-saum/prime-65-saum-4s-142gr-match-case.html

Although it is loaded with a 142 open tip match bullet (rumor is Sierra Match), it is made by RUAG so you'll get great Norma brass.

Also heard that Alpha Munitions may be making SAUM brass within the next year.

So, I'll be hanging on to my 6.5 SAUM...

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

Love the 6.5 saum cartridge it is the perfect mid sized round and really is stupid accurate if fed with the right brass. like all others have said hornady is absolute junk.. get norma made and turned from a couple different companies and its awesome. the fact that companies see this round for what it should be and are willing to tool up to make it speaks volumes. Its not even close to a wildcat as so many have stated and a lot of people over think it!! I wont ever be without mine.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

Yup
I'm keeping my 6.5 SAUM for sure.
It's about the perfect balance of performance and recoil for my ultralight long range setup.
Awesome elk killer.

 

[Rick Richard]

I ain't getting rid of mine. Fits perfect, shoots great, but won't be able to shoot it much longer if brass is no longer available.

 

[Smokepoles]

theyre one of the few cartridges that are currently selling well in custom lr hunting rigs, youll be seeing them in classifieds for quite a while..

better brass is coming and itll only boost its popularity.

 

[Dinosaur hunter]

If I sell mine it will only be to build another one.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Awesome learning thread fore sure,,, I share openly as to not take away from the OP's ideas.

I returned to the rifle category 2 ish years ago, man,,, talk about brain storming trying to find a cartrage to run with.

My list ran from 243/6mm to 300 super Mag with everything in the middle,,, 100+ cartrages to plug up my pumpkin .Ha.

Then one night after thinning out the list, I woke up with 30/06 on the brain, not the best at any thing, nor the worst.

Simple to buy & load ammo for, Lapua brass fore sure. Not bad barrel life, can run reduces loads in the off season,,, then crank it up on the hunting season.

I found the JAM, backed things off 20 thousands,,, and filled my needs with no brain power. LOL

I'm glad I didn't get lost in the glass cooler of different flavours of ice cream,,, don't get me wrong,,, veriety is good. It drives the shooting sports forward,,, and forces folks to push the limits. But I'm not that guy.

I like shooting, reloading, learning and practicing the simple stuff, but I also like keeping it simple "when" simple is needed.

Some days I buckle down to make the dream loads, other days I dump in the powder like a drunken sailor hoping I find a Island full so naked girls,,, seems like every Island I find is one full of Kows .Ha

Oh well, Us Northern dudes above the 49th make fun with what we have,,, I sure hope that the USA & Canada can remain as good trading partners since both of us rely on one another in keeping the dream going.
I like my Canada,,, but I love the Americas more.

PS: Our $Cnd dollar sucks up here, it makes it hard buying the fun stuff from our friends in the South. Hopefully we remain with more incommon, alot of our family roots landed in the USA many many moons ago.

I just about jumped into the 6.5 category of endless, at times I think I should of,,, but it ended up being the 30. Nothing major since the Island I'm on still allows them and every other caliber to call the place home.

The shooting sports of good times no matter what brand or flavor shows up at the range or in the field.

Don

 

[newmexkid]

The problem is that many think that 6.5 anything is the answer. It is a great caliber and needs no help in the accuracy department, BUT when people start wild catting cartridges, other problems start to show, (Brass availability, loading dies, chamber reamers, fire forming and many loading challenges themselves. There are many good 6.5,s and realy no reason to wildcat an already good one.

The SAUM is factory loaded, in 7 mm, so if someone wants a SAUM this would be a great one to chose. the performance is as good or better.

But as we all know, we want something different, so we do things without thinking about the difficulty we will have. Any cartridge necked to 6.5 sounds good until we build it and that's when the trouble begins.

Only the very experienced loader should tackle a wildcat design, and even then they may have difficulty making it do what they wanted it to do.

I suspect that is the reason that many are getting away from "any" wildcat is the trouble of all the process including finding components.

My recommendation to anyone is to consider a cartridge that fits your needs and find one that is common because it has everything available necessary to fill your needs and loaded ammo is readily available. But don't chose the flavor of the week just because someone brags about it being the most accurate and best. (There is no such cartridge).

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

I agree 100% with you. Big deal! LOL. I have loaded since the early 70's but had never done a "wildcat". Well, in the last 2 years I have done 3 of them. Had some trouble coming up with all the necessary stuff but, I persisted and got it done. Now as I look back I am amazed at how much more I now know (and more too learn) about loading. Wonderful experience. Lately I'm thinking about finally getting a 6.5-284 or maybe another, "wildcat". Awww ****...Life is short!