I have a 6.5 SAUM for sale right now. It's a very accurate rifle and I'm only selling this one because I have two! It's an awesome round. Without question brass is the 6.5 SAUM's achilles heel. The 300NM was plagued by the same issue but has recently been rectified. Hopefully a quality brass manufacturer picks up the 6.5 and does for it what has been done for the 300NM.
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Weren't most of the commercially available cartridges of today a "wildcat" at some point? Got to start somewhere
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Weren't most of the commercially available cartridges of today a "wildcat" at some point? Got to start somewhere
Not realy.
Most cartridges were designed by the rifle manufactures and supported by their ammo. Some of the ammo manufactures started branching out on there own and producing a few of the most popular wildcats that were reloaded by there designer and for many years they were only available in custom rifles.
The needs were different and most people could nor afford a custom rifle that took Special ammo. Most of the custom rifle were chambered in factory cartridges and ammo was available because the factories still made rifles in certain calibers. only a few brave soles designed and bilt something different
Of all the SAMMI cartridges, very few are/were actual wildcats. There are scores of propitiatory cartridges that are not loaded by anyone but the designer or the re-loader and many obsolete cartridges that are no longer made or on SAMMI list.
Only recently has there been an increase in the wildcats popularity.
mostly because everyone wants something different, and more and more companies are supporting the re loader with custom reamers and dies. Some ammo is now available and components such as the more popular brass, are being made by cartridge companies.
With the rifle manufactures having such a tight grip on the whole process, people are getting tired of there control and getting into rifles and cartridges that they have the control of the quality and usability, that more and more custom rifles and chambers are being bought and dependence on the rifle manufactures is dwindling.
The main advantage to staying with a SAMMI cartridge is that most if not all bugs are worked out and buying or loading ammo is not a problem in most cases. Wildcats are another thing and should only be entered into by an experienced shooter/re loader.
Sorry about the history lesson
J E CUSTOM
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Don't be sorry for the history lesson. You are spot on and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I was using the term "wildcat" out of context. I guess the only true wildcats that became factory rounds were 22-250 and 25-06 to name a couple. There may be a few more but I have no idea what they were.
Good review and comments.
A descendent of the 284 Winchester, the 6.5x284 Norma is an interesting case. Starting as a very popular wildcat well over a decade ago, it was extensively used in competition with many different dimensional variations(throat, neck diameter, headspace dimensions). Eventually, Norma established a definitive SAAMI spec for the cartridge that is an excellent design. Fortunately, companies like Savage, Cooper, and a host of custom/semi-custom makers adhere to the Sammi spec, suppling action lengths to accommodate VLD seating depths. However, there are some rifle and (big name)barrel makers claiming 6.5x284 Norma chambers that do not adhere to the Sammi spec and will actually supply rifles with short actions. I am frequently contacted by shooters having difficulty trying to achieve the expected results from their 6.5x284Norma, only to find that they have a mutant. IM0, with any of the cartridges originating as a "wildcat", the shooter is wise to do their homework, understand the specific design, and not take anything for granted, regardless of who the gunsmith, maker, or previous owner is. IMO.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
I heard all the 6.5 SAUM guys are building the 6.5 PRC.........
6.5-284 Winchester .
Redding has sold both 6.5x284 Winchester and Norma labeled dyes. While declared identicle, it's resulted in unnecessary confusion for many new shooters. Same with Lapua's Brass.
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
This was also the case with the 30/338 and the 308 Norma mag years ago. they were very,very close and some said that they could be fired in ether rifle, but I would not recommend it.
So many liberties are being taken these days with chamber dimensions that one should be very careful what chamber you have/get and what you feed it.
Just a caution
J E CUSTOM
Jerry M
Well-Known Member
I believe the 6.5X 284 Norma has a much longer overall length (of the loaded cartridge) than the 6.5X284 Winchester. Shooting a 6.5X 284 Norma in a rifle chambered for a Winchester could cause problems.
I am sure someone with more experience with this cartridge will opine.
Good luck
Jerry
I am sure someone with more experience with this cartridge will opine.
Good luck
Jerry
I recently bought a 6.5x284 Savage pull off barrel (about 6 months ago) that I believe a rookie machinist tried to lengthen the throat. But got it a little too long. So he sold everything...I bought it all.
Any way it shoots great! I don' really have any accuracy issue. But with lite bullets...just barely seated...they are jumping a mile to lands. I always wonder just how much better it might shoot if I could seat the bullet with reasonable jump.
My plan is to build another, with a properly throated custom barrel. I already have the complete action/mag well so I just need to pick a barrel manufacturer and do it!
I could not sell this barrel...so if I ever shoot it out I will use it for a tomato stake! And more than likely do another 6.5x284...
Any way it shoots great! I don' really have any accuracy issue. But with lite bullets...just barely seated...they are jumping a mile to lands. I always wonder just how much better it might shoot if I could seat the bullet with reasonable jump.
My plan is to build another, with a properly throated custom barrel. I already have the complete action/mag well so I just need to pick a barrel manufacturer and do it!
I could not sell this barrel...so if I ever shoot it out I will use it for a tomato stake! And more than likely do another 6.5x284...
The 6.5x284 Norma is the official description of the SAAMI spec cartridge(santioned by Norma). There is essentially no difference of the brass or dyes between the 6.5x284 Norma and 6.5x284 Winchester. Prior to the SAAMI registration, the wildcat version was generally described as the 6.5x284 Winchester since it was 284 Winchester case.necked down to .264(6.5). Norma did the world a big favor by standardizing and optimizing the performance with chambering dimensions of a longer throat/leade with COAL 3.29", enabling full use of the case capacity, and the longer VLD style bullets. Since the parent cartridge, the 284 Winchester, was originally designed for a short action rifle with a 2.8" COAL, it was common with 6.5x284's to see variations in the throating/leade; many times to accommodate short action rifles. Using a Norma spec cartridge in one of these "short" chambers could potentially jam the bullet into the rifling, and cause an over pressure situation. This is the reason that you don't see 6.5x284 Norma ammunition supplied by the major ammo manufacturers. Too much liability due to possible variations in chambering with the non-Norma spec wildcats still in the market. This was one the primary motivations behind the introduction of the ballistically identical 6.5 PRC....standardized, factory ammo that matches the performance of the 6.5x284 Norma SAAMI spec.
kiwikid
Well-Known Member
Greyfox and JE Custom have made some very valid points regarding wildcats and the 6.5-284 Norma. Looking at the SAAMI cartridge list there is no mention of the 6.5-284 Norma cartridge that I could find which makes me wonder if Norma ever submitted it for approval and testing. I know that Norma submitted it to the European CIP but where does that leave American manufacturers? Any ideas?
