Which Published Berger BCs Are From Predictions Rather than Measurements?

[MudRunner2005]

Speaking of scientists...

I need a new flux capacitor for my 4th Dimensional Hyperdrive...

Anyone got a spare?

 

[lrshooter11]

Exactly!

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Americans are stuck on numbers, and numbers sell the product. In example Horsepower, Velocity, Money, Truck tires, Size of their manhood, the points on the antlers, on and on. Ballistic Coefficients are no exception. The more the better, if a little is good a lot is better. Companies that market their product are knowing this. They will build in a 5 to 7 percent "variable" or "margin of error" to make the product more appealing and sell. In todays world of manufacturing there is little error for the 5 to 7 percent to be valid. This is proven on the accuracy on the range that many are getting. Hardly the error margin that they defend themselves with when questioned on the inflated BCs they advertise.
Now this has changed the way one must judge the way they spend their money. Not only are we buying the quality but we must buy honesty and integrity.
Berger at one time and still is to some degree marketing inflated BCs to sell their bullets. Lets face it, that's what they are in the business to do.
The most accurate way to establish a True almost perfect BC is by using the Doppler method. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. The variables between each firearm even make the estimation difficult by the bullet drop in the actual field.
The companies that have the very true Ballistic coefficients advertised are #1.. Barnes #2..Lapua. If you are benchracing the Barnes LRH against other brands they will lose a lot, if you in field test then they will shoot as flat as many that advertise much higher BCs. Yes Barnes is the only one of the large bullet manufactures that uses the Doppler Method. Lapua on the other hand is quality and has strict quality control witch extends the bullets they manufacture and the BC they advertise, definetly not along the lines of SOME of the American thoughts of doing business. None of this is opinion. I challenge anyone that doesn't agree to research this.

 

[IdahoRedneck]

You mean doppler and Michael Courtney right

Tongue in cheek..........just ask him, im sure hes published a paper on it already.

 

[Jluck]

Barnes is the only one of the large bullet manufactures that uses the Doppler Method.

I wish I had known this a couple weeks ago, I was at Barnes and was taken through the entire bullet making process and "Ballistics lab" but didn't think to ask about Doppler testing. Is it in house or contracted?

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I can only assume that due to the expense that it is contracted. Now that Remington owns them and Randy And Connie are enjoying their MILLIONS who is to say.

 

[Jluck]

I can only assume that due to the expense that it is contracted. Now that Remington owns them and Randy And Connie are enjoying their MILLIONS who is to say.

Both of them still work there and seemed like decent people, Actually everyone I met seemed like good people.

 

[feelinducky]

Are you looking for a job?


You should be.

 

[Jluck]

Are you looking for a job?


You should be.

Who?

 

[feelinducky]

Who?

The OP

 

[Michael Courtney]

Are you looking for a job?


You should be.

Working as a scientific consultant gives me a lot of freedom. The Air Force was a great employer, but Colorado took a drastic turn for the worse on Constitutional issues, including RBKA. My wife and I decided that Louisiana would be a much friendlier place to raise children and have a consulting business in ballistics.

My experience through the years has been that insisting on honestly meeting the specs can put one's job at risk if one's employer is cutting corners, but pointing out how other providers are not meeting their specs does not typically create a need to look for new work. My Dad always emphasized that the combination of a great work ethic, good education, and scientific skill set would never leave a man without plenty of work to do.

The Air Force was very good to me and I managed to win awards for both teaching and research in my four years there. Here I am pictured with a couple of Generals (the USAFA Superintendent and the the head of AFRL) accepting the research award. I got to meet a Nobel prize winner when I accepted the teaching award. God bless the US Air Force.

 

[Korhil78]

Well the debate of you being a legit scientist is over! After looking at that picture, I can tell that you are a scientist. How heavy was that award? It looks like you are straining to hold it up .

Just messing with you Michael. You look like a nice enough guy.

Why not instead of throwing Berger under the bus, just get in contact with Bryan and send him your data on the bullets that you are talking about and try to work it out between each other if it bothers you that much?

I know sometimes that scientist are not socialites unless they are talking about their passion so I will help you out on the conversation starter....

"*Ring* *Ring...Hello, this is Bryan Litz with Berger bullets."
"Hello, this is Michael Courtney. I wanted to talk to yo....." *Click* *Ringtone*...

Michael this is where you will have to call back as Bryan my be upset with you but persistence pays off!

*Ring* *Ring*...Hello, this is Bryan Litz with Berger Bullets."
"Bryan please don't hang up on me, I just want to talk about...(insert conversation here).

I am sure that they may be much more likely to talk it out with you instead of airing it out on an online forum. Maybe you guys can trade data and discuss it.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I don't really care what outside scientific data has proven..... I've performed my own OUTSIDE "scientific" data tests, and when I input the given BC's into my programs and compensate for drops, they work. Not to mention the bullets function and perform as advertised.

So, I'll keep using Bergers.

 

[deadidarren]

I don't really care what outside scientific data has proven..... I've performed my own OUTSIDE "scientific" data tests, and when I input the given BC's into my programs and compensate for drops, they work. Not to mention the bullets function and perform as advertised.

So, I'll keep using Bergers.

absobloodylutely