Where to start with hobby gunsmithing

[SCdeerhunter]

Any time a gunsmith takes in work that he can not do "right now", "on the spot", and must be kept over night, must be logged into his 'bound book' as per ATFE regs. (and logged out when it leaves, preferably with the person who left it with you,,, anyone else, his wife, his son,, form 4473 and NICS check). At any point, if you are "in the business", full time, part time, doesn't matter, a FFL is required. Whether you supply the receiver, order for others (or yourself), buy/sell/trade or not,, if you are "in the business" to profit (and with the expense of any and all gunsmithing tools and equipment you can not even do friends guns for free unless you do not value your time at all, and a pat on the back is enough) you are required to be licensed. And, think of this, no FFL, no gunsmith liability insurance. You can not imagine how much information I have been required to supply insurance carriers with (think several pages of policies and procedures for your 'company'), including a copy of my Federal Firearms License, to be covered. Life ain't simple. And then there are sales taxes, state income taxes and the IRS,,, and we still have ITAR even though the White House has changed occupants. Ever wonder why gunsmithing costs what it does? Work on and modify your own, personal firearms and don't worry about it!

That sounds horrible haha. I can only imagine how rough it'd be dealing with the atf AND insurance companies. Thanks for explaining it. That sounds like more of a reason to keep it a hobby. I also looked into that NRA summer courses deal and they offer some classes about 4 hours away from where I'll be in Colorado. So I might eventually take a couple of those.

 

[SCdeerhunter]

Thank you JE and shortgrass though for taking the time to explain that. That's the main reason I asked the question here. To see if it would even be worth trying to do it for profit on the side. I still want to learn it and I'll still take some classes here and there but I'll stick with my day job and keep this a hobby. I'd be happy just being able to build my own customs. Would get quite a bit of satisfaction out of that. Thanks again guys.

 

[shortgrass]

It is not exactly "horrible", but it all takes part of your time and attention. The taxes part is "horrible", but dealing with ATFE is not so difficult and when you decide you are not the prey when dealing with an insurance company, it becomes easier, too. The point is "time". Every minute of every day should be worth something to you, and you should be compensated when you use some of that 'time' for the benefit of someone else, whether they can see where all of that 'time' went for or not. We all have limited 'time' on this earth. None of use knows 'when' time is up. Make the most of your "time".

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Dont look at it as gunsmithing. Learn basic machining procedures. Pick up a lathe and learn how to grind tools, cut threads, bore, ext. learn how to correct the problems you will run into. Theres plenty of books out there and its not hard to learn. Once you understand those things the gunsmithing end will seem very basic to you.

 

[shortgrass]

Learning to operate a lathe and chamber a barrel will not teach you how to inlet and shape a stock, checker it, finish it,, install and fit a new DA sear in a S&W Revolver, re-time the cylinder, color case harden a shotgun action, polish a set of double gun barrels or a barreled action and then slow rust blue. There is so much more than fitting barrels to rifle actions. There are leaf springs to be made that can no longer be bought from suppliers, sights to be mounted on barrels, and parts to be made for repairs, and at times that might mean finding the right piece of material and using a hack saw, file and stones to make it. Try and fit, adjust, try and fit again until it is as it should be. The good "old school" gunsmith knows when and how to do 'hand work'. and is not afraid to do it!

 

[CaptnC]

I guess this thread has about runs it's course, but I just found it.

I too have been thinking about getting into gunsmithing when I retire. I only have a year or two to go...trying to hit 43 years of service...be 60 when I get there...

I've already been doing all my own work already...I've already done an 80% AK receiver...by hand. The fanciest tool I used was a wire feed welder to spot weld the rails in place...I didn't even use a drill press! I hardened the holes and tempered the receiver.

I've head spaced many AK's and and two mauser. The mausers of where short chambered barrels, so I hand reamed them them. I did all the metal and wood work on my M48 Mauser 308 win...turned the bolt, head spaced the chamber and made the bottom metal by cutting, shortening the 98 bottom metal...did the stock work too! I even altered the stock so it can be comfortably shot left handed even though it has a roll over check piece...

Done several inlet jobs and a few more bedding jobs on plastic stocks. I have one beauty of a stock that I cut the tree down and papered it all the way to where it is now!

I've done a bunch of snap together AR's and just recently put together a Savage 110 in 264 win mag. That was pretty much a snap together job similar to the AR's.

I have turned a new firing pin for my double barreled shotgun. Heat treated and tempered that too...it's been in my shotgun for about 30 years working fine.

I feel like if I had my hands on a lath I could be a lot further along!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Learning to operate a lathe and chamber a barrel will not teach you how to inlet and shape a stock, checker it, finish it,, install and fit a new DA sear in a S&W Revolver, re-time the cylinder, color case harden a shotgun action, polish a set of double gun barrels or a barreled action and then slow rust blue. There is so much more than fitting barrels to rifle actions. There are leaf springs to be made that can no longer be bought from suppliers, sights to be mounted on barrels, and parts to be made for repairs, and at times that might mean finding the right piece of material and using a hack saw, file and stones to make it. Try and fit, adjust, try and fit again until it is as it should be. The good "old school" gunsmith knows when and how to do 'hand work'. and is not afraid to do it!

Very true, but I am assuming the op is probably not interested in actually gunsmithing but gun assembly which is what most "gunsmiths" today really are. Buy parts, open box, assemble. At most you may need to fit a barrel or do minor inlet work before bedding. The actual gunsmith you speak of is a dying breed. Not because no one wants to do it, but because you can't pay the bills fixing guns when walmart will sell you a new 700 for $350. I used to do general work like that, repair costs are usually more than what the rifle is worth.

 

[CaptnC]

Like Alex...a lot doing just what he said...like me...I'm just playing gunsmith right now, but would really like to step it up.

I have checkering tool but never used them...watched my dad checker my H&R single shot shotgun back in the early 70's. That was the only time they were ever used.

I went to the range yesterday. I only seen one wood stocked rifle and I was there for 6 hours...not many people looking for wood stocks any more. Come to think of it...didn't see any laminated stocks either!

I still have two mesquite blanks that I cut back in the late 90's to do...one will go on the wife's 6.5-06 and the other on a 6.5x55 that I plan to give to my grandson.

 

[Don A Parsons]

2 of my close friends choose specialty firearms works that does not apply to handing any of the iron stuff.

Both of them are building world renowned rifle stocks, and they live off their proceeds.

Both are in the top edges along with many other in this field,,, I use this idea as an example.

The Firearm arms world could lead you into thousands of different directions my friend, I agree with JE.

Start with things that interest you as it helps drive your passions forward,,, each step leads to the next exciting adventure and so on.

If one removes their blinders to endless possibilities, the road "could" take places you never thought you'd be going.

Today I got schooled by a Wildcat builder. He doesn't build the rifles him self as its not his forta.

His job is profiling the best of unknown cartrages, then turn them into tack-drivers,,, this is a massive under taking since he does all the testing of load devolment, research, data entry, SAAMI spec, more testing tweeking, articling, engineering, and other things behind the seens that most folks don't see.

The word he used today was endless,,, the firearms world is endless.
Once you think you know everything, someone comes along and puts a kink on the next theory.
His job is to under stand all aspects of these and test them out to make sure they are proven 100%.

After spending the day with him, I soon realized I have alot to learn my self.
I was wize today, I only hope I'm wizer tomorrow.

Western Canada Pal Don

 

[shortgrass]

Very true, but I am assuming the op is probably not interested in actually gunsmithing but gun assembly which is what most "gunsmiths" today really are. Buy parts, open box, assemble. At most you may need to fit a barrel or do minor inlet work before bedding. The actual gunsmith you speak of is a dying breed. Not because no one wants to do it, but because you can't pay the bills fixing guns when walmart will sell you a new 700 for $350. I used to do general work like that, repair costs are usually more than what the rifle is worth.

Go to WalMart and buy a new S&W revolver for $350, OH! that's right! WalMart doesn't sell handguns! And I know of NO S&W revolver that doesn't need work that's priced at $350. Have ya' seen a Model 27 or 29 for $350 lately? They don't have AYA shotguns, or Fox Sterlingwoth shotguns , either. And as far as wood stocks, you guys just aren't looking in the right place. There's a whole group/following that still can afford and prefers wood,,,,,, checkered wood.... There is still some pretty good money in making repairs, unless you're trying to repair junk! Repairs from my shop will run $55-$65 per hour. And I've got more work than I really want! If all I did was assemble "kits", I'd be bored to death! You can either work for the masses who will bitch about the price charged at every opportunity, or work for those that say "WOW! I'm glad I finally found someone who can really do this work!". Ever heard of the ACGG?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Go to WalMart and buy a new S&W revolver for $350, OH! that's right! WalMart doesn't sell handguns! And I know of NO S&W revolver that doesn't need work that's priced at $350. Have ya' seen a Model 27 or 29 for $350 lately? They don't have AYA shotguns, or Fox Sterlingwoth shotguns , either. And as far as wood stocks, you guys just aren't looking in the right place. There's a whole group/following that still can afford and prefers wood,,,,,, checkered wood.... There is still some pretty good money in making repairs, unless you're trying to repair junk! Repairs from my shop will run $55-$65 per hour. And I've got more work than I really want! If all I did was assemble "kits", I'd be bored to death! You can either work for the masses who will bitch about the price charged at every opportunity, or work for those that say "WOW! I'm glad I finally found someone who can really do this work!". Ever heard of the ACGG?

If you would read the OP you would see he is interested in working on rifles. Absolutely no mention of classic S&W or shotguns. This is a rifle forum so I guess it kind of makes sense thats what hes interested in. Not everyone needs to pay someone else to teach them how to use their hands. Like was said, a hundred different directions to go in this business. But like any other you can be a jack of all trades or master in one area.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Arguing about depth of knowledge and experience in the trade that has become so broad, serves little purpose.

As a "retirement" career path, "gunsmithing" at any level can be frustrating and rewarding. Same as any "job". It's not a way to make much money in retirement.

I've been trying to get into Lassen for a couple years now. Not easy to do. In the mean time, I am working my way up from gun "maintainer" (that is all of us), to gun "repairer" and "improver". Not for money. I am smart enough to send out for things I can't do. I have no dilutions that I will be truing R700 actions that win bench rest competitions. I "built" many guns. Two particular required profiling a barrel, threading in a square thread, chambering, stock inletting, extractor modifications, stock inletting, trigger repairs and a bit more.

 

[JSHKS]

Well I will throw in here as well. Being as I was or maybe still am in the same boat you are.
R-E-A-D, then read some more. In between chapters, I suggest you do a lot of looking at options as far as schooling of basic machine shop work.
Nothing in the books are written in stone, there have been a lot of short cuts that work excellent compared to some of the older ways. And when I said read,meet a hard copy somthing you can hold in your hand and turn the pages, highlight things etc, use it, it is a tool.

I am done preaching;-)

On to me.
The world should be made of iron and steel.
I have been fooling with metal in some way shape or form since I was around 8-9. Dads buddy was a true black smith and it did nothing but amaze me from the get go.
My dad wanted a lathe for years in the worst way. I decided I wanted one and I was going to have one. I started a search about two years ago. Mind you I have a great friend that is a tool and die maker. He advised me on what to look for. I decided what I was going to spend.
I ended up with a very nice Sheldon lathe, that came from an old local gun smith. It has been well taken care of.
That is just the start. Tooling can be very expensive. I say can be, I am very frugal. I kept an eye out for auctions. At about 4-5 auctions I spent about 1k total. That netted me close to 6-8k worth of equipment. No junk, Starrett, Brown and Sharp, mitutoyo and a couple of others. Lufkin is looked over a lot but was high end in the day.
Before you ask yes I ended up with stuff I will never have use for. After my buddy looked at some of it, and we decided what was "cull" stuff I sold it. One piece at a time like Johnny Cash, that gave me darn near all of my investment back. Actually it did as I swapped into a real nice Kennedy box and another one.
Yes it will take some room.
Yes it is heavy, iron tends to be that way.
Yes it can be expensive, chances are it won't get cheaper.
The only female I have to worry about has four legs.
We could always be doing a whole lot worse with our dollar and be at a lot les desirable places than in the shop.
Remember we are not getting any younger either.
If you so desire to get into this get after it! Times a wasting!!
PM me and give a holler if you want. Easier to talk than type.
Jeff

 

[shortgrass]

[QUOTE="Alex Wheeler, post: 1365263, member: 101859"} But like any other you can be a jack of all trades or master in one area.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^^^ This is the biggest crock of crap propagated today! A man with imagination and the ability to think can have no limits. Sorry to hear you are so mentally challenged you can only do one or 2 things.....