When do you turn your necks?

[Mc Fraser]

Do you guys usually turn necks for full custom rifles and premium brass like ADG? How do you know how much material to remove?

 

[Rardoin]

7SS/ADG brass/fire forming loads/unturned brass/190 Atips/N165. Velocities from 2610-2805 fps. Only 100yds but formed brass loads have grouped under 4" at 965yds multiple times. No, I don't see a need to turn necks

 

[Rardoin]

While it is fun to try to squeeze every fraction of an inch of precision out of our rifles there is little to be gained by turning necks unless you are shooting a full out, fully rested bench rest rifle. Most rigs and rests will not have any significant improvement from neck turning unless your chamber/neck thickness requires it for chambering. The above charge test was shot with a 22lb full out F open gun/fully rested with minimal contact with the rifle. I have turned necks for several years for my competition rifles but have found that it is not necessary to win in 600-1000yd f-class. I'll put on my Nomex suit now

 

[blueprairiedog]

I turn necks when I feel like it (just kidding good morning everyone ) I just had to say it hope everyone has a great day

 

[J E Custom]

You will get many different opinions/methods on this topic and to save time I did a search and couldn't find the post I was looking for so I will just post the method I prefer.

I only turn case necks on new necks because--- This is your best chance to produce concentric cases
because the chamber is concentric to the bore and the case has not been fire formed. If you fire form a new case, it will relocate the neck bore buy the amount of the thickness difference. Also if all cases are turned (I prefer to measure the thickness difference and turn just enough to clean all the cases up. they will not only all expand the same, the chamber can true them up the first firing and better results will be achieved during load development.

To get quality/consistent neck thickness I also recommend using a sizing mandrel first to better fit the turning mandrel. this combination give me the best fit and consistent thickness. The next step is to size the neck only for the bullet grip I want for consistent chamber pressures. This sounds like a lot of trouble, but in my opinion and experience, you only have one time to truly true up the cases and first has saved me many loading's for accuracy and in the long run, money.

Fully prepped cases before initial firings will give you the best way to have consistent cases that are important for consistent accuracy. How much accuracy depends on many things including shooter ability.

I prefer eliminating any differences that I can, to minimize shooter error by making everything as consistent as possible, and not just depending on my abilities to overcome them. I have never been able to produce the same accuracy with even the same loads, but the consistency/average of what I can do, has always been better if I did everything I could to make things consistent in the first place.

Consistent neck thickness is always better for accuracy, Its how you get there that Is the question.

Just my opinion and method

J E CUSTOM

 

[Orange Dust]

While it is fun to try to squeeze every fraction of an inch of precision out of our rifles there is little to be gained by turning necks unless you are shooting a full out, fully rested bench rest rifle. Most rigs and rests will not have any significant improvement from neck turning unless your chamber/neck thickness requires it for chambering. The above charge test was shot with a 22lb full out F open gun/fully rested with minimal contact with the rifle. I have turned necks for several years for my competition rifles but have found that it is not necessary to win in 600-1000yd f-class. I'll put on my Nomex suit now

Here is the biggest benefit I see to turning necks on a long range rifle. ES/SD. The more consistent the brass (including necks) the easier it seems to be to get them low with a big magnum. Small capacity cartridges, not so much. Starting the bullet down the barrel straight doesn't hurt anything either. Well prepped brass is just more consistent and often easier to tune. Very important in a hunting rifle. Not so much in a high volume competition rig. You are not wrong, but the requirements are different.

 

[J E Custom]

When I was younger, I didn't pay much attention to minor differences in accuracy and relied on skill.
Now that I am older, I need all the help I can get and try to eliminate any differences I can.

To bad I didn't do then what I do now. So for the newer shooters, Why handicap your self. do it the best you can now and learn from us older shooters instead of the hard way. Any improvement is just that, an improvement. An improvement is important no mater how little or for what purpose/distance. Things/improvements that are hard to see at close distances become more important at greater distances but they are just as important.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Rardoin]

Orange, while I agree that we have different requirements, to be competitive in F-class requires a higher degree of precision than LR hunting unless you are dealing with very small game. The big difference is with my competition I shoot known distances and can tune specifically for that distance. That means that I can have a load with a bit of a high SD of velocity and, if I have it tuned to the distance I am shooting, It can get very small groups. However, a common misconception is that if a load shoots small at closer range (let's say 100-200yds) and has an ES in the low teens or lower and an SD in the mid/low single digits it will shoot just as small in MOA at any distance in the theoretical dead calm condition. My best loads that shoot well from 300yds to 1000yds are, almost without exception, not the ones with very small ES/SD. The point I am making is that with proper loading techniques which include consistent neck treatment, the right neck tension, the best primer for that load, properly developed charge weight, and charges less than 0.1gr accuracy one can arrive at a gun that will shoot .5 MOA much more often than not....without turning necks. I have been the full circuit and I have found that with good quality brass I cannot find an advantage in scores. My time is more productive to improving my scores by shooting more in different conditions. Just my observations. One thing for sure is that, if properly done, neck turning will not hurt precision.

Respectfully,

Robin

 

[L.Sherm]

I turn necks on some because I have to, some because I want to, some because I know it helps.
I don't like brass that has thicker necks than .015 wall thickness to hard to control neck tension, .013-.014 is better in my opinion

 

[J E Custom]

Orange, while I agree that we have different requirements, to be competitive in F-class requires a higher degree of precision than LR hunting unless you are dealing with very small game. The big difference is with my competition I shoot known distances and can tune specifically for that distance. That means that I can have a load with a bit of a high SD of velocity and, if I have it tuned to the distance I am shooting, It can get very small groups. However, a common misconception is that if a load shoots small at closer range (let's say 100-200yds) and has an ES in the low teens or lower and an SD in the mid/low single digits it will shoot just as small in MOA at any distance in the theoretical dead calm condition. My best loads that shoot well from 300yds to 1000yds are, almost without exception, not the ones with very small ES/SD. The point I am making is that with proper loading techniques which include consistent neck treatment, the right neck tension, the best primer for that load, properly developed charge weight, and charges less than 0.1gr one can arrive at a gun that will shoot .5 MOA much more often than not....without turning necks. I have been the full circuit and I have found that with good quality brass I cannot find an advantage in scores. My time is more productive to improving my scores by shooting more in different conditions. Just my observations. One thing for sure is that, if properly done, neck turning will not hurt precision.

Respectfully,

Robin

I would respectfully have to disagree that target shooting requires more precision. In my opinion if you make a poor shot you only hurt the 8 ring on the target. If you make a poor shot on an animal, you hurt him and waist what ever you expected to get from the hunt, I shot long range competition for close to 15 years and feel much more pressure and responsibility to hit where aimed.

I hear what you are saying, but disagree that hunting a living animal is less important that punching a hole in a piece of paper or ringing a steel target, And like you said, Target shooting allows siter's and workups for loads for specific distances, Hunting does not allow any of these things except to have the most consistently accurate ammo.

Just My opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Rardoin]

JE, You misunderstand me. I certainly agree that an ethical hunter, of which I consider myself as I was a hunter way before a target shooter, should have his rifle capable of hitting where he is aiming...at any distance he/she is shooting. I am just stating that to be competitive with the folks I shoot against if my rifle cannot hold an X ring in a dead calm at 1000yds for 20 consecutive shots I will not win a major match. I do not need .5MOA precision to ethically hunt LR game unless the kill zone is less than a 5" circle... I need consistent 'minute of boiler room'. However, the tighter shooting the rifle, the better and one should strive for reasonable precision. I made my comment aimed at those who feel, based on interweb lore, that you have to turn necks to have any real precision. I hate to see relatively new shooters go and spend a small fortune on gear that will not make a difference until/unless they have the skills/equipment/demand for that degree of minutia in their case prep. I am just presenting a contrary point of view. I consider all opinions in this thread valid.

 

[Orange Dust]

JE, You misunderstand me. I certainly agree that an ethical hunter, of which I consider myself as I was a hunter way before a target shooter, should have his rifle capable of hitting where he is aiming...at any distance he/she is shooting. I am just stating that to be competitive with the folks I shoot against if my rifle cannot hold an X ring in a dead calm at 1000yds for 20 consecutive shots I will not win a major match. I do not need .5MOA precision to ethically hunt LR game unless the kill zone is less than a 5" circle... I need consistent 'minute of boiler room'. However, the tighter shooting the rifle, the better and one should strive for reasonable precision. I made my comment aimed at those who feel, based on interweb lore, that you have to turn necks to have any real precision. I hate to see relatively new shooters go and spend a small fortune on gear that will not make a difference until/unless they have the skills/equipment/demand for that degree of minutia in their case prep. I am just presenting a contrary point of view. I consider all opinions in this thread valid.

The good news is 100 cases will outlast the barrel on many of the really overbore magnums, so its just not that much extra work. The extra effort will result in a more consistent bullet release, low SD's are easier to find. If it was a high volume rifle, I would try and find a load that would be good enough without all the bother. And, this is usually achieveable with a target cartridge. They on average are much easier to tune. You are not wrong. I stated that earlier.

 

[Rardoin]

The context of my situation is also relevant to my opinion... I have to have 450+ cartridges loaded for a MR and LR national championship match. I typically have 500 pieces of match prepped brass for any chambering I am competing with. That is a lot of neck turning! At 100 pieces or so it is not as daunting for certain. I even picked up a very fast neck turning lathe that cuts the ID and OD at the same time and it is collecting dust until I find that I need that extra little bit that turned necks may afford me. I certainly test turned necks vs unturned necks in every cartridge I shoot.

 

[Mc Fraser]

.... I certainly test turned necks vs unturned necks in every cartridge I shoot.

And? What is the conclusion?