When do you stop chasing accuracy?

[.300 Dakota]

Are you going to shoot groups when you are Whitetail hunting? So why are you shooting groups? In a hunting rifle, you want that cold bore shot to land where the cross hairs are at. I only shoot groups to break the barrel in. After that it is cold bore shots with my hunting rifles. My 2 Cents

Sage advice. I've been burned by keeping zero from groups in one environment and then missing in another environment with a cold bore shot. You HAVE to know where that first shot is going. On the other hand. If your gun isn't capable of a certain margin of accuracy, it doesn't matter whether you're shooting groups or cold bore because you have no idea where that next round is going precicely. You'll just know it will fall within a certain area. You have to keep that area within Minute of Deer, but you always want to be able to place your shot where it needs to be within a small margin. When you start landing outside Minute of Deer, you have issues that need to be addressed.

 

[xsn10s]

I had a 30-06 that shot 1.5" groups consistently at 100 yards with 180gr Partitions. I deemed it a 300 yard rifle, maybe 400 yards. One day I had paper targets out at 300 yards and decided I'll check my groups there, again 1.5" but at 300 yards. I expected 4.5" groups so I was surprised. There were 16-17 oz water bottles on the 450 yard berm and that rifle hit 8 of them with 10 shots. Those bottles are about 2.5" wide and 7.5" tall. 100 yard groups are a test, I place more value on shooting out to distance.

 

[Txcowboy50]

3shots one hole at 100 yrds...or close to it

 

[2buffalo]

I had a 30-06 that shot 1.5" groups consistently at 100 yards with 180gr Partitions. I deemed it a 300 yard rifle, maybe 400 yards. One day I had paper targets out at 300 yards and decided I'll check my groups there, again 1.5" but at 300 yards. I expected 4.5" groups so I was surprised. There were 16-17 oz water bottles on the 450 yard berm and that rifle hit 8 of them with 10 shots. Those bottles are about 2.5" wide and 7.5" tall. 100 yard groups are a test, I place more value on shooting out to distance.

How can a rifle shoot no better than 1.5" at 100 and the same at 300? Not saying I don't believe you just trying to understand.

 

[xsn10s]

How can a rifle shoot no better than 1.5" at 100 and the same at 300? Not saying I don't believe you just trying to understand.

One gunsmith I know believes that the bullets didn't stabilize until after 100 yards. Although I've read articles that Litz doesn't believe that's possible. Litz believes it's a parallax issue. So the short answer is I cannot explain it other than these two ideas. I shot that rifle at COSSA range in Central Oregon. Gary Lewis was there watching me hit sticks off that 450 yard berm lol. BTW it's good to question things on here. I've read more than one comment that didn't fly.

 

[spladi]

I have a Tikka T3X Veil in 6.5 PRC, I am loading 143 ELD-X not because I particularly care for them but that's what shoots so far. I am using RL26, Nosler blem brass and Fed 210M primers. If I have not had much coffee, it shoots .5 to .6 at 100. My intent is to use it for whitetail to 800 yards. My longest shot so far is 519 yards with a 257 weatherby. Is there any point looking for another 1/4" of accuracy since I will be shooting off a bipod in field conditions?

See what you can do with it on a day that you think will closely match the days you will be hunting @ 300 / 400 yds. A little tighter mo better!

 

[436]

One gunsmith I know believes that the bullets didn't stabilize until after 100 yards. Although I've read articles that Litz doesn't believe that's possible. Litz believes it's a parallax issue. So the short answer is I cannot explain it other than these two ideas. I shot that rifle at COSSA range in Central Oregon. Gary Lewis was there watching me hit sticks off that 450 yard berm lol. BTW it's good to question things on here. I've read more than one comment that didn't fly.

Bullet pitch and yawing based on rotation speed and twist, can come and go at different spots for sure, or waking up and going to sleep...as they say. Over the years it seems like most of the longer higher BC bullets didn't want to wake up until they reach, oh... around the 200-yard mark while the lighter bullets and flat-based bullets would wake up at under 100 yards, at least in many of my rifles, calibers, and twist rates back then. One of my best LR rifles was an M70 in .243 WSSM using 115gr bullets shot trouble 100-yard groups (for an LR rifle) yet consistently stayed in the 10-ring at 1k Just my experience with it...Cheers

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have a Tikka T3X Veil in 6.5 PRC, I am loading 143 ELD-X not because I particularly care for them but that's what shoots so far. I am using RL26, Nosler blem brass and Fed 210M primers. If I have not had much coffee, it shoots .5 to .6 at 100. My intent is to use it for whitetail to 800 yards. My longest shot so far is 519 yards with a 257 weatherby. Is there any point looking for another 1/4" of accuracy since I will be shooting off a bipod in field conditions?

Take it to your max range you want to hunt and seem what it can do. Then you will have to keep it in tune. The tune will change so dont load too many at a time.

 

[brant89]

This does not track with reality.

A 6" plate at 800yds is essentially .7 MOA. A half moa rifle would leave roughly .15 MOA on either side of the group if that group were fired dead center plate. A 1/4 MOA rifle would leave twice that.

Running mils at 800, the delta between a 10mph wind and a 11mph wind is a tenth of a mil commonly. That's .35 MOA. So, if you're off on your wind call by 1mph with a 1/4 MOA rifle, you still have a fair chance of hitting the target. With a 1/2 MOA rifle, your chances are massively worse. Then there's the reality that only the best of us can call wind under 1mph. Even fewer can do it at 800.


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A .5MOA rifle on a .7MOA target leaves .1MOA on either side, and a .25MOA rifle would leave .225MOA, so the comparison actually favors the .25MOA rifle more than what you stated here.

The problem with the example you've given is that .35MOA wind drift is exactly half the target size (.7MOA). That means that both groups would be centered EXACTLY on the edge of the plate and would both have EXACTLY the same 50% hit percentage on a square target (a round target would favor the 1/4MOA rifle by a few percent). I know it seems like the 1/4MOA rifle has a better chance, but basic geometry says it doesn't.

Of course if you do a proper integration from 0-1MPH the numbers would favor the .25MOA rifle, but this still effectively illustrates that the difference isn't as great as one might think.

Add in the fact that most shooters would be closer to +/-3MPH wind error at that distance, which would be over 1MOA of wind drift on a .7MOA target, and both rifles are going to be missing a lot. The time spent sorting brass and bullets, and tinkering with seating depth in .001" increments would have been better spent at the range improving your wind estimation.

 

[del2les]

If it were me, I'd stop chasing groups and go shoot in various conditions at 800+ yards.

I can't stress this enough. As a BR shooter, SR and LR, I was, and still am, obsessed with chasing small bug holes and small groups at LR, but for medium or large hunting for most, it can be nearly useless if one cannot read wind, hold tight and steady, have good follow through, read mirage, etc, etc at true LR ranges. Thus why the PRC, NM and various LR prone courses did more to help me train for real world hunting than my BR days. Sure, any "good" trigger time is adding to one's skill set, but you can give a laser to an inadequate LR shooter and he may, and most likely will, miss.

 

[loonie]

Bug hole groups at 100 yards don't mean squat at long distance. You have to tune at 600 or 800 yards if thats the distance your going to shoot animals. I have had loads that would shoot 1 1/2 at 600 and not hold up well at 1000. If you don't test your load at that distance first, you shouldn't be shooting at live animals.

 

[JAYgs8163]

The 144 Berger is awesome out of my rifle. Paired with H4831SC pushing 2950 with no pressure at all.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

I am doing load development for a Weatherby Mark V in 270 Weatherby Mag, right now. !50 Grn ABLR and H 4831SC. Today it was 66.7; 67.0 and 67.3 grns . The rifle was a gift from my parents back in the 1970,s. Love the rifle, have up graded the scope, and really enjoying the Load Development Process. The rifle will be use for whitetails, in the North Carolina Bean fields this coming season. So a shot just over 500 yards is possible. All that said, When I bought this rifle, it came with the Weatherby Target , which showed an 1 and 1/4 inch three shot group. 26 inch BBl, 10 Twist. In the 70's that was considered a really big deal. Today, if I can make this rifle Groupe 1 MOA, at 100; 200 and 300 yards with the bullet I would like to use, at the velocity 2900-3000 fps I would like to have, I will be very pleased. Then I will shoot and shoot and shoot some more. Including go back to the Bang Steel LR Shooting School with this set up, just like last year. Then go on the deer hunt with High Confidence. Constant practice helps and old guy like me. My accuracy seems to improve, with continued practice. Speaking for myself only, I'm a bit better ,more comfortable, and more relaxed , after shooting 100 rounds than I am at the first 5 or 10 rounds.

 

[Dirtrax]

Loading precise ammo does not require unusually expensive equipment. It demands attention to detail on the matters that count to produce quality ammo. Don't ask me what they are; ask AW or someone of that caliber what to focus on. Mr. Wheeler has a post on a K.I.S.S method for reloading and I recommend it. At the end of the day any rifle is capable of a level of precision unique to it in it's current configuration. Find that and then decide if you want to expand on it ($$$). That said, within the constraints of your time and finances do the best you can. Then shoot at distance (hunting conditions) and let the paper tell you what your max range is. Please remember to post a pic of your nice buck regardless the distance it was harvested at.