What went wrong? Opinions needed.

[TX Badger]

His acknowledgment of error helps the rest of us learn. It sets an example. We all screw up from time to tome, and it does a body good to keep that in mind.
Back to the original question: I would not totally discount parallax. And when changing magnification and parallax settings, scopes can do strange things.
Another gunny and I one day filled a van with guns and scopes and headed for the range. No ammo, just optics. We set up Zeiss test patterns, print samples, and whatever else we could think of at various yardages. We got a lot of "Beware the man with only one gun ..." comments, couldn't come up with a real answer, and let the jokers go untaught. We forgot the words "Research, Optics." or we could have put up a sign and been left alone. When shooting, I enjoy a conversation break. This was serious.
I can tell you that we learned more about scopes and our eyes on that day than we had in a combined century of hacking it on our own without the single-minded purpose.
Gary's gone now, but I still treasure that day.

That sounds like the only good use for a lead sled. Strap the gun in tight and mess with the parallax, tracking, eye alignment... just don't shoot off one. I'd like to do this.

 

[xsn10s]

2. Shoot like I shot the elk – prone, with a bipod, not leaning into it, butt barely touching my shoulder, elbow on the ground, no rear support.

You could do that to see where your impact is, but that's not what I consider good shooting technique. The buttpad should ALWAYS be well seated tightly into your shoulder "pocket". Regardless of position, and ideally the same in every position. That's what works best for me. To do otherwise will create inconsistencies and increase felt recoil. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[xsn10s]

I think #2 just revealed to all of us what the problem was and why all your shots while prone went high.

 

[FURMAN]

I think #2 just revealed to all of us what the problem was and why all your shots while prone went high.

Some of us figured that out on page one.

 

[xsn10s]

I didn't see that he didn't seat the rifle tight.

 

[xsn10s]

I see where I missed it. I thought he meant he wasn't using a rear bag as support. I didn't think he meant he wasn't seating the butt tight in the shoulder. That's the issue right there.

 

[xsn10s]

Okay this is my last post on this thread. Here is a picture of a rockchuck I shot in the head at 398 yards. With the AR15 I built and my handloads. Prone on rocks where rattlers live, hasty slung with standard cheap nylon sling. Cheesy Scopechief scope with the worst fisheye. All I did is factor in the distance and wind and aim for the head. No rear bag, no rest, no bipod, just the sling and prone position. No factoring in uplift even though it was 86 degrees F. Just a good prone position, rifle seated tight, and knowing my gear and abilities. A 400 yard shot is not hard or very far. I am not a rifle competitor, a sniper, or a long range hunter. I just like to shoot and have been practicing long range "shooting" for over 20 years. Nothing special. Learn the basics and have fun.

 

[Canhunter35]

It's a 450yd shot, you do not need to factor up drafts, thermals, or even spin drift into the equation.
Elevation and wind is all that's needed.
With a tail wind what I would've done is glance at my dope chart set to the density altitude of where I'm hunting that's taped to my scope and simply held over the required Moa on the elk.
To the op, I've shot overtop of two separate coyotes around 500yds because I fully extended bipods and had my elbows too vertical, creating an unstable rear position and my bag wasn't tall enough. Heck the second time I did it, I was aware of the possibility, but figured I could get it done. I missed and cursed myself for not crawling to a better position or even moving to a sitting position.
As others have mentioned, tools like the bipod buddy can help in awkward high positions. If you have a backpack, throw it under your chest and right arm for more stability.
I seen you ordered a bunch to try, you'll get it figured out what works, but practice how you plan to shoot in the field. If you haven't practiced it the field is not the time to try it out

 

[Song Dogger]

His acknowledgment of error helps the rest of us learn. It sets an example. We all screw up from time to tome, and it does a body good to keep that in mind.
Back to the original question: I would not totally discount parallax. And when changing magnification and parallax settings, scopes can do strange things.
Another gunny and I one day filled a van with guns and scopes and headed for the range. No ammo, just optics. We set up Zeiss test patterns, print samples, and whatever else we could think of at various yardages. We got a lot of "Beware the man with only one gun ..." comments, couldn't come up with a real answer, and let the jokers go untaught. We forgot the words "Research, Optics." or we could have put up a sign and been left alone. When shooting, I enjoy a conversation break. This was serious.
I can tell you that we learned more about scopes and our eyes on that day than we had in a combined century of hacking it on our own without the single-minded purpose.
Gary's gone now, but I still treasure that day.

Yep, parallax and eye alignment are other things I can experiment with. Shouldn't be too difficult to verify - shoot with proper alignment, form and parallax adjustment, then compare POI when misaligned with badly adjusted parallax.

 

[Song Dogger]

You could do that to see where your impact is, but that's not what I consider good shooting technique. The buttpad should ALWAYS be well seated tightly into your shoulder "pocket". Regardless of position, and ideally the same in every position. That's what works best for me. To do otherwise will create inconsistencies and increase felt recoil. Just my 2 cents worth.

I think you figured it out, but I'd only do this to verify POI using my previously poor technique.

 

[Song Dogger]

I'll elaborate more on my improper form. Prior to this, I was under the impression "the less I interact with the gun, the less mistakes I'd make". In practice, the Lead Sled braced the butt and I gently hung my fingers from under the fore end to avoid scope bite - no crosshair movement from breathing or heartbeats. When I shot this elk, it was a conscious decision to not touch the fore end, I did not lean into the bipod, and the butt barely touched my shoulder. Only my trigger arm, elbow on the ground, held the butt and crosshairs in place.

Not that we need more evidence - but I found a comment in the appendix of a report made by the shop that developed my load. It states:

"Consistent form is key with this rifle. Inconsistent holds show quickly. It needs consistently placed pressure on the fore end, cheekpiece, shoulder, and grip. When done, it shoots very well." They went on to say it's true of most Fierce rifles, suggesting stock lines, palm swell, toe line, and sloping cheekpiece may be the reasons.

 

[Song Dogger]

Are we here to play with our toys, or kill an animal?

I cant believe this is still being discussed. Advice and opinions? Point is you probably wont take it anyway.

...this whole situation was based on inexperience on the part of both shooter and spotter.

It's gotten to the point that newcomers believe that if they haven't read certain books or haven't bought certain items, this stuff cant be done, and thats just plain BS.

Well i'll tell you what else your not, and thats a long range hunter.

All this discussion here has little to nothing to do with how to kill the elk.

Good thing there wasent some young kid from PA looking at that same elk from a different location

You must be a heckuva long range shooter with these sniping skills.

 

[Wedgy]

You must be a heckuva long range shooter with these sniping skills.

Most "long range" guys consider 450 yards a chip shot, most know their rifle and load & could just hold over on an elk size target at that "short" range, without having to calculate anything.
Most of us have practiced our way up on the bench and in field conditions to our range limits before experimenting on animals.
You situation most likely came about from lack of practice under hunting conditions. Yobuck , as I, am tired of seeing the typical guy who falls for the "1,000 Yards Out of The Box" marketing and the ends up here asking what went wrong. Invest more time before, not after. I applaud your honesty, don't take it too personally, it's the internet.
Continue to practice and keep us posted. I missed it if you posted any pictures of the elk.

 

[yobuck]

Most "long range" guys consider 450 yards a chip shot, most know their rifle and load & could just hold over on an elk size target at that "short" range, without having to calculate anything.
Most of us have practiced our way up on the bench and in field conditions to our range limits before experimenting on animals.
You situation most likely came about from lack of practice under hunting conditions. Yobuck , as I, am tired of seeing the typical guy who falls for the "1,000 Yards Out of The Box" marketing and the ends up here asking what went wrong. Invest more time before, not after. I applaud your honesty, don't take it too personally, it's the internet.
Continue to practice and keep us posted. I missed it if you posted any pictures of the elk.

Thank you, you nailed it exactly. But im not all that sure their really interested in knowing the how.
The main issue seems to be (how) to get their way to work.
Apperently they believe this all began the day they started, with that they saw on the internet as being necessary to have and use. Obviously its not working all that well when you cant hit a standing elk at 450 with 8 shots with a spotter buddy supposedly watching, but who must have actually been busy making a fire for cooking lunch. I mean this whole thing is really too comical to be taken very seriously. What the hell is going on with this site?