What to replace the 6.8 SPC II with

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Going to have to start another post. Way past my bed time
Sorry, the zdogs were getting interested in moving the mouse around,
i think a great cartridge in a AR platform.

 

[jake545]

…..
So what is best for a faster load for Yotes or does the 6.8 SPC group shoot heavies for subsonic?

Very few try to shoot subs as that's not what it was designed for. Get a 1:10-1:11.25 twist and shoot 85-140gr at super sonic. The 130&140 Berger's classics can be loaded up to still be super at 1000yds. 120sst should get you out to 600-700yds.

90gr HP works well and is close to 3000 fps or over with a 20"

I know I was over 3,000 with the 90gr GD loads in my 20" barrel.

 

[Mike6158]

I think that shooting subs was the wrong path to take. I've got a 1:10. I'll move the suppressor to the .300 Blackout and shoot the 6.8 SPC how it was meant to be shot.

 

[Mike6158]

Are you using a muzzle device to attach your suppressor to? Or are you going direct thread?

I have a 6.8 SPC 12.5" that I run a Silencer Co Omega 300 suppressor on. If I use the quick attach/detach muzzle brake that came with the suppressor along with the quick attach/detach rear assembly on the suppressor the rifles shoots poorly. It took me some time to figure it out. My barrel is threaded 5/8-24. So I removed the Silencer co muzzle device and quick attach/detach rear plate. Installed the 5/-24 rear direct attach plate and threaded it straight onto my barrel. Snugged it up. The rifle was shooting 3" or so with the quick connect set up. With the same load after I went direct attach my groups tightened up to this @ 100 yards.

3 shot group bellow.

Yep. I used the Key-mo that came with the Dead Air Sandman L. The QA muzzle break that is mounted on the rifle doesn't look the same as what's on the .223. Both are supposed to be from Dead Air. I need to see if my son swapped it when he installed it. Inadvertently or otherwise. The one that I suspect is wrong has got three fingers vs the device on the .223's solid QA muzzle break from Dead Air. I've been suspicious of that thing since I had problems.

Mine wasn't shooting inches off. It was shooting 3 to 4 feet off. Very low and about a 18" to the left at 100. Barely hitting a 4' tall by 3' wide piece of paper at 50 yards.

 

[jake545]

Yep. I used the Key-mo that came with the Dead Air Sandman L. The QA muzzle break that is mounted on the rifle doesn't look the same as what's on the .223. Both are supposed to be from Dead Air. I need to see if my son swapped it when he installed it. Inadvertently or otherwise. The one that I suspect is wrong has got three fingers vs the device on the .223's solid QA muzzle break from Dead Air. I've been suspicious of that thing since I had problems.

Mine wasn't shooting inches off. It was shooting 3 to 4 feet off. Very low and about a 18" to the left at 100. Barely hitting a 4' tall by 3' wide piece of paper at 50 yards.

Have you checked can with an alignment rod?

 

[Mike6158]

Have you checked can with an alignment rod?

No but there are no strikes in or out. It's been raining here every weekend so I haven't had a chance to take it back to the range with just a muzzle brake to see how it shoots factory loads.

 

[jake545]

To answer your original question as to what's a good round that work super and subsonic in hogs…..none unless it's a big bore 458 socom etc. Subs with anything under 350-400gr isn't going to perform better than a 45acp. 220gr at 1050fps vs 230gr at 1050

Subs are not really meant for hunting hogs! They can kill but not reliably, especially on larger hogs. In my opinion the 6.8 sub is Bison Armory trying to fit a square peg in a round whole. The 6.8spc is an excellent round for hogs but only supersonic. Subs don't really gain you anything, as any animal WILL RUN at the shot whether it's a suppressed sub 22 or a 300ultra mag. The only benefit is neighbors not knowing you shot that raccoon that's been killing your chicken.

 

[Mike6158]

To answer your original question as to what's a good round that work super and subsonic in hogs…..none unless it's a big bore 458 socom etc. Subs with anything under 350-400gr isn't going to perform better than a 45acp. 220gr at 1050fps vs 230gr at 1050

Subs are not really meant for hunting hogs! They can kill but not reliably, especially on larger hogs. In my opinion the 6.8 sub is Bison Armory trying to fit a square peg in a round whole. The 6.8spc is an excellent round for hogs but only supersonic. Subs don't really gain you anything, as any animal WILL RUN at the shot whether it's a suppressed sub 22 or a 300ultra mag. The only benefit is neighbors not knowing you shot that raccoon that's been killing your chicken.

Idk about subs under 350 - 400 gr being the only subs that work. Comparing them to .45 ACP. Surely not a pistol?

I'll let you know how the 8.6 Blackout subs perform if I ever get the @*$@ thing built. My son-in-law, now in his 30's, has been running dogs on hogs and shooting hogs with suppressed AR's and bolt guns for about 17 years (suppressors came later). His favorite suppressed rifle is a .308 bolt gun. I loaded some 200 gr. Lapua's subsonic for him They are quiet (not movie star quiet, the kind of quiet that you just mentioned) and the hogs don't seem to be able to resist dying when he shoots them.

Just for grins I used my solver to compare energies of a couple of different rounds at 100. Most hog and coyote shots he takes are 50 - 100 yards.

With the exception of the 8.6 Blackout I've shot these with my Labradar so the muzzle velocity plugged into the solver (as well as G1 and G7) are actual not estimated.

.20 55 gr Berger muzzle velocity 3,387 fps on target 3,126 fps 1,194 fpe (foot pounds of energy) (bolt action rifle, custom)

.223 64 gr Berger muzzle velocity 2,835 fps on target 2,677 fps 1,019 fpe (bolt action rifle)
.223 69 gr Unknown mfg muzzle velocity 2,668 fps on target 2,509 fps 964 fpe AR platform

.308 200 gr Lapua Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,025 fps on target 988 fps 433 fpe

.300 AAC Blackout 220 gr Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,050 fps on target 1,017 fps 506 fpe 521 fpe at 50 yards. It'll still make them dead just like the .308 does

8.6 Blackout 300 gr Berger Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,050-ish on target 1,030 fps 354 fpe (50 yards 1,006 fps / 449 fpe) Still dead but it might giggle a little as it goes down. Rotational energy is supposed to be a thing but I haven't been able to test that yet. It looks cool in ballistic gel

 

[Zen Archery]

All of MDWS wildcats are based off 6.8 SPC case. So pick a caliber, barrel length, barrel profile, trim current stock of cases, neck up or down, use same bolt head. All you're doing is swapping barrel modifying cases.

 

[ARlife4me]

The 7tc looks to be a contender for subs and with better bc as if it mattered.

 

[ARlife4me]

ALSO, I'm in no way a 28cal fan nor have anything chambered in 28cal!

Each day I get closer on the urge to get something in that caliber.

 

[jake545]

Idk about subs under 350 - 400 gr being the only subs that work. Comparing them to .45 ACP. Surely not a pistol?

I'll let you know how the 8.6 Blackout subs perform if I ever get the @*$@ thing built. My son-in-law, now in his 30's, has been running dogs on hogs and shooting hogs with suppressed AR's and bolt guns for about 17 years (suppressors came later). His favorite suppressed rifle is a .308 bolt gun. I loaded some 200 gr. Lapua's subsonic for him They are quiet (not movie star quiet, the kind of quiet that you just mentioned) and the hogs don't seem to be able to resist dying when he shoots them.

Just for grins I used my solver to compare energies of a couple of different rounds at 100. Most hog and coyote shots he takes are 50 - 100 yards.

With the exception of the 8.6 Blackout I've shot these with my Labradar so the muzzle velocity plugged into the solver (as well as G1 and G7) are actual not estimated.

.20 55 gr Berger muzzle velocity 3,387 fps on target 3,126 fps 1,194 fpe (foot pounds of energy) (bolt action rifle, custom)

.223 64 gr Berger muzzle velocity 2,835 fps on target 2,677 fps 1,019 fpe (bolt action rifle)
.223 69 gr Unknown mfg muzzle velocity 2,668 fps on target 2,509 fps 964 fpe AR platform

.308 200 gr Lapua Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,025 fps on target 988 fps 433 fpe

.300 AAC Blackout 220 gr Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,050 fps on target 1,017 fps 506 fpe 521 fpe at 50 yards. It'll still make them dead just like the .308 does

8.6 Blackout 300 gr Berger Subsonic muzzle velocity 1,050-ish on target 1,030 fps 354 fpe (50 yards 1,006 fps / 449 fpe) Still dead but it might giggle a little as it goes down. Rotational energy is supposed to be a thing but I haven't been able to test that yet. It looks cool in ballistic gel

With subs you don't have many options to increase effectiveness. One of them is special bullets which will open up wide but also limits penetration. The extra spin of the 8.6 helps more with copper bullets and it does make them open up more and increases effectiveness. The other way to increase effectiveness is to increase bullet weight. Since energy is a calculation of velocity and mass, if you cap velocity as with subs, the ONLY way to increase energy is by increasing mass. The 8.6 has a chance to be decent but in my opinion would be the absolute minimum for hunting with subs unless it's ear holing game. Just because you have killed something with a round doesn't mean it's a good choice. You can kill hogs with a 22lr subsonic but I wouldn't go recommending it. Now for shooting bayed hogs you are typically talking one hog and close range so a sub would work better in those scenarios than it would in other scenarios but a super would still be better.

Just look at how many professional hog hunters abandoned the 300bo after having poor results.

 

[ARlife4me]

With subs you don't have many options to increase effectiveness. One of them is special bullets which will open up wide but also limits penetration. The extra spin of the 8.6 helps more with copper bullets and it does make them open up more and increases effectiveness. The other way to increase effectiveness is to increase bullet weight. Since energy is a calculation of velocity and mass, if you cap velocity as with subs, the ONLY way to increase energy is by increasing mass. The 8.6 has a chance to be decent but in my opinion would be the absolute minimum for hunting unless it's ear holing game. Just because you have killed something with a round doesn't mean it's a good choice. You can kill hogs with a 22lr subsonic but I wouldn't go recommending it.

Just look at how many professional hog hunters abandoned the 300bo.

that's why I laugh at boxes labeled as ultimate hog hunter..............marketing

 

[Mike6158]

Yeah, the 300 blackout is underwhelming at best. I guess if hogs were to suddenly storm the hunters position it might allow him or her to kill them inside the 50 yard line before they scatter his or her parts all over the pasture and feast on the remains.

Personally... I think the .223 is a decent cartridge for hogs. It's a cost effective round, a good suppressor makes it quiet enough that hearing isn't affected that much (eh...), and it kills them...

We're pretty much on the same page. Good discussion.