What rifle combo to choose

[GBA1776]

Thank you all for your input! I am trying to stay at or under 1000 for the build.
I have seen many people talk about fixed magnification scopes. Are there any real benefits over variable power? Maybe glass clarity for reading mirage?
Thanks all

Welcome to the incredibly difficult and frustrating world of long range shooting!!!
I went through the same process you are doing right now and made about every mistake possible so hopefully you can learn from my mistakes.

If you want quick advice here it is.

Buy a Savage/Ruger Axis/American series package rifle for about $400 the guns are supremely accurate, my father in law bought 3 last christmas to upgrade the grandkids hunting rifles, two Savage Axis one in 6.5 and one in .243 ( a greatly under appreciated long range cartridge) and the Ruger was also in 6.5.

I sighted them in for him and was stunned that all three were shooting consistent 1.5" groups and even some sub 1" groups. I only had 450 yards to play with but the rifles were ringing 10" steel gongs with boring regularity at any range.

The rifles these days are so good that anyone who blames their Savage Axis or Ruger American for bad shooting is lying to themselves or they got a lemon.

The scopes that come on them are not great but they are absolutely good enough to use accurately with holds for known ranges, they wont have mil/moa scale reticles but those are nice to have not required technology.

Most of what you need to work on is marksmanship fundamentals at close range and a 22lr is perfect for that, and then consistency at intermediate ranges before you try to push out really far.

All of that work can be done on your long range rifle as well but its more expensive, get your fundamentals down pat with a .22lr or a bone stock package series rifle from Ruger/Savage and only when you have hit a brick wall on progress because your scope is holding you back then upgrade to a better optic.

The SWFA SS fixed 10x scope is by far the best budget optic capable of long range precision.
The objective bell focus model is $300 and the side focus model (which I have) is like $350.

I had a Viper HST 3-15x44 and traded it for the SWFA 3-15x42 because I wanted the reticle.

The Viper HST is a better scope it has much better clarity and light transmission at high magnification than the variable SWFA SS.
The fixed 10x SWFA SS has better light transmission and in my opinion better glass than both of the scopes I had that cost almost twice as much.

If you go buy a Savage Axis without a scope you can save about $150 so $300 for the rifle and if you spend another $350 on the SWFA SS 10x scope you have a $750 package that will never hold you back.

 

[ducky]

If you really want to hunt at 1000 yards, use a cartridge that is better suited than the .308. There is nothing better for big game to begin with than the 300 Win Mag, you can even buy match grade ammo off of the shelf the same as the .308 but you can more effectively use heavier bullets that buck the wind better. Remember that hunting is not sitting at a bench punching paper, you have to carry the rifle all day long when you hunt big game. Heavy barrels and heavy stocks become a burden with time. Perhaps you can use the bench hunting prairie dogs or coyotes but I haven't.

In my experience most white tail hunting is far different from sheep, mule deer, and elk hunting. Heavier rifles aren't near the bane for white tails as they are for other big game. Plus the OP never said he would be hunting at 1000 yards. Then there is the fact going from a .223/5.56 to a .300 Win Mag is a steep learning curve!

 

[Lee Persons]

Sorru for the late responses. Thank you all again for the input, greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the incredibly difficult and frustrating world of long range shooting!!!
I went through the same process you are doing right now and made about every mistake possible so hopefully you can learn from my mistakes.

If you want quick advice here it is.

Buy a Savage/Ruger Axis/American series package rifle for about $400 the guns are supremely accurate, my father in law bought 3 last christmas to upgrade the grandkids hunting rifles, two Savage Axis one in 6.5 and one in .243 ( a greatly under appreciated long range cartridge) and the Ruger was also in 6.5.

I sighted them in for him and was stunned that all three were shooting consistent 1.5" groups and even some sub 1" groups. I only had 450 yards to play with but the rifles were ringing 10" steel gongs with boring regularity at any range.

The rifles these days are so good that anyone who blames their Savage Axis or Ruger American for bad shooting is lying to themselves or they got a lemon.

The scopes that come on them are not great but they are absolutely good enough to use accurately with holds for known ranges, they wont have mil/moa scale reticles but those are nice to have not required technology.

Most of what you need to work on is marksmanship fundamentals at close range and a 22lr is perfect for that, and then consistency at intermediate ranges before you try to push out really far.

All of that work can be done on your long range rifle as well but its more expensive, get your fundamentals down pat with a .22lr or a bone stock package series rifle from Ruger/Savage and only when you have hit a brick wall on progress because your scope is holding you back then upgrade to a better optic.

The SWFA SS fixed 10x scope is by far the best budget optic capable of long range precision.
The objective bell focus model is $300 and the side focus model (which I have) is like $350.

I had a Viper HST 3-15x44 and traded it for the SWFA 3-15x42 because I wanted the reticle.

The Viper HST is a better scope it has much better clarity and light transmission at high magnification than the variable SWFA SS.
The fixed 10x SWFA SS has better light transmission and in my opinion better glass than both of the scopes I had that cost almost twice as much.

If you go buy a Savage Axis without a scope you can save about $150 so $300 for the rifle and if you spend another $350 on the SWFA SS 10x scope you have a $750 package that will never hold you back.

I believe i have come to an answer that satisfies my money concience. Instead of spending bigger money i think im going to spend time with the ranch 5.56 and learm to reliably hit targets up to 4 or 500 yds. Like you said, worl om the fundamentals. I admit im not a good shot and 223 ammo is much cheaper. I still have not decided on first or second focal plane but for money i think i may go with second and just remember to turn magnification to the right setting to range. Since i have only learned the basics of ranging i am looking for MIL reticle and MOA turrets. A fixed power thag is good is attractive and i may purchase one to put on the 223 to allow the rifle to shine and so that the only error is me amd i can hopefully learn! Thanks again and for sure ill be back when i do start a larger caliber build. Lee

 

[Rifleman513]

I would look at this for a rifle. Lots of folks buy them and replace the stock. they are a good deal and can be very accurate:
https://www.cabelas.com/product/sho.../savage-fv-varmint-rifle/1994604.uts?slotId=7

Get 6.5 Creedmoor, forget the 308 thing...

I would look at this scope. It is new and getting good reviews. Good features for the money. Should get you to 1K.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-diamondback-tactical-ffp-4-16x44-moa.html

I picked up this gun mentioned above for a steal and decided I would use it for a long range practice gun. I put a viper 4-16 hst on it and was hitting a silhouette sized target at 1k the first time I took it out. I still haven't got around to working up a load for it so I've been shooting Hornady 147gr ELDM ammo. It shoots suprisingly well. First savage I have owned, and have no complaints about it.

 

[nimrod_gn]

A Browning X bolt, Tikka, Savage, or Howa rifle with a TRACT scope

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

Sorru for the late responses. Thank you all again for the input, greatly appreciated.



I believe i have come to an answer that satisfies my money concience. Instead of spending bigger money i think im going to spend time with the ranch 5.56 and learm to reliably hit targets up to 4 or 500 yds. Like you said, worl om the fundamentals. I admit im not a good shot and 223 ammo is much cheaper. I still have not decided on first or second focal plane but for money i think i may go with second and just remember to turn magnification to the right setting to range. Since i have only learned the basics of ranging i am looking for MIL reticle and MOA turrets. A fixed power thag is good is attractive and i may purchase one to put on the 223 to allow the rifle to shine and so that the only error is me amd i can hopefully learn! Thanks again and for sure ill be back when i do start a larger caliber build. Lee

This is a very good plan I shoot AR-15's out to 700yds regularly running 75gr pills I believe Black Hills loads 75's at a decent price for those that don't handload. A reasonable priced scope is the 6-18 luepold mark AR with mil dot retical. I have two of them very repeatable for the money no bells and whistles like zero stop but good scopes. Also the benchrest guys love the weaver t-series fixed power scopes for the same reasons. When you get around to stepping up to a longer range caliber go 6 Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 243 win, 7mm-08. A 308 can shoot 1000yds but those other calibers will do it with ease don't handicap yourself out of the gate

 

[GBA1776]

This is a very good plan I shoot AR-15's out to 700yds regularly running 75gr pills I believe Black Hills loads 75's at a decent price for those that don't handload. A reasonable priced scope is the 6-18 luepold mark AR with mil dot retical. I have two of them very repeatable for the money no bells and whistles like zero stop but good scopes. Also the benchrest guys love the weaver t-series fixed power scopes for the same reasons. When you get around to stepping up to a longer range caliber go 6 Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 243 win, 7mm-08. A 308 can shoot 1000yds but those other calibers will do it with ease don't handicap yourself out of the gate

I completely agree about the .308 there is no reason to limit yourself to a cartridge built by a committee based on outdated notions. The .243 or the Creedmores are much better options.

You also touched on the point I actively tried to avoid because of the path it led me down which was away from long range shooting and right into 2 gun competition, and that was *dun *dun *dun the AR-15.

I don't regret going down the target rifle road I started on I learned a whole lot shooting my SPR style AR-15 but I have learned so much so fast shooting 2 gun that I would change my approach given the chance to do it over.

I would have just built a light but accurate AR-15 like my 2 gun rifle and spent the $1200-1500 on a really nice scope instead of compromising on glass because I spent $650 on a barrel.
Yeah my target AR is more accurate but its also 3.5lbs heavier and honestly I dont care about the difference between a consistent 1.25" gun and a consistent .75" gun.

Ive never shot my two gun rifle and thought "gee I wish this was more accurate" every time I shoot my SPR I think "gee I wish this thing wasn't 12lbs"

I can and do put my scope on my 2 gun rifle and use it for long range and its 90% as good as my target gun, and that 10% of "advantage" is only in the extremely compulsive world of target shooting for groups.
Part of that is the difference in barrel but I think its mostly the supremely crisp trigger I have on my target rifle compared to the enhanced mil spec I use for competition.
Either way a good light AR-15 is going to be more than accurate enough for people who want to shoot well but wont lose sleep over a few 10ths of an inch here and there.
And I would say if you are not reloading for pure precision go with a lighter handier more capable gun not a 1 ragged hole shooting target rifle.
If you go AR-15 aim for an empty weight without optics of 6.5lbs the light barrels these days don't heat string like the used to, groups open slightly but its not a problem.