what kind of action???

[Bart B]

It's pathetic how bad disgust yall have for the 700's, even though they are good actions.

They are good actions. Others are outstanding, marvelous or excellent; a cut, step or jump above good.

Those that are able to observe the difference know it.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I own, and have owned ALOT of different guns over the years......

Howa is not better than a 700....Period. Had both, at the same time, compared side-by-side, and there is no way in hell, the older Howa 1500 actions were anywhere NEAR as good as the 700's. The gun I had was an older Howa 1500 Lightning .223 heavy-barrel.

And I'm so glad yall can tell me that I'm not smart enough to observe the differences in the different types of actions. What's it like being that smug?

Glad I'm not so blind that I can't see beyond my nose.

Yall have fun trying to turn everyone anti-Remington.

 

[Daveinjax]

My personal experience is the the Remington 700 is very poorly made. Quality control is spotty at best. I've personally had the bolt handle come off due to bad soldering , angled bolt face , bubbling finish on a 30 day old stock , rust specks from under the finish of my ss barrel , feed ramp milled to a washboard finish . All of this on a CDL SF .

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well, if this is gonna turn into a Rem 700 bash-fest, without substantial proof, then I'm done here. I don't bash on any action. That Howa was the only one I've ever owned that was horrible, and I plan on never owning another one. I could have gotten a lemon, but b/c I had a lemon, and mention it, yall wanna bash some more on the 700's.

It's pathetic how bad disgust yall have for the 700's, even though they are good actions. When someone mentions a 700 action, why do you always feel it necessary to try to change their mind? Has it ever occured to you that forcing your own agenda onto someone might push them away further? Well it does. Just FYI.

What are you talking about? Why would I bash an action that I am using for a build? What I am doing is giving objective observations comparing features of various actions. If I have said anything inaccurate, please show me. Get over it already

 

[MudRunner2005]

Christ.....Now you're gonna patronize me, to make me look like the one who started all this? I don't think so...

 

[Trickymissfit]

What I find very interesting is that when we are talkign about actions, we atribute good accuracy to the action. When we are talking about barrels, we atribute good accuracy to the barrel. When we are talking about bullets, we attribute good accuracy to the bullet, etc., etc.

In the final analysis one must consider all the components and factors involved.

An accurate rifle can be built on any action. There will always be anecdotal stories of well my Savage or my Remmy or my Ruger shoots. What does that prove or mean? one can find anecdotal horror stories as well which in my case I could tell about a Ruger M77 Tang Safety and a Sako M85.

I've got a couple of 1/2 MOA Senderos on untrued 700 actions. Replace the barrels with a factory production sporter barrels and replace the stock with an injection molded plastic stock and you will porbably not see 1/2 MOA accuarcy. Probably lucky to get 1 MOA. My first rifle ever, a R700 BDL 243 was a bout a 1 - 1 1/2 MOA shooter out of the box, shooting factory ammo. That said, my next rifle was a S&W M1500 (Howa) 7mm RM which was a 1/2 MOA shooter out of the box.

IMO, in the big picture, there are 3 types of factory action rifles you generally a lot of good about and almost nothing bad. They would be the M70, the Howa and the Savage. I can find a lot more issue and problem posts and threads about the others although there are always the good ones.

You see very few shooters sporting precision rifles on Browning and Ruger actions. Probably going to be stepping on some toes regarding that, but it is an objective and factual observation. If you take a close look at these actions and toss the anecdotal stories the reasons will become evident.

If you want to make an objective decision about "which action", then look at the facts objectively. Look at the features of the action and the overall big picture results.

kinda reminds me of a buddy that had a Remington 788 laying around. He builds a 22-250AI out of it. Sent the action to Dwight Scott up in Michigan to have it trued (sure he thought he was nuts!), and of course Dwight did a job on the action that he's often known for. While it was up there he sent him a new Shilen barrel blank, and also had him chamber it and set the headspace. Doug did all the rest of the work himself. The rifle shot quarter inch groups all day long. Then a couple years later another shooting buddy of mine gets his hands on a couple 788's from his father inlaw. One was in .308, and I think the other was either 30-30 or maybe even 44 mag. The one in .308 was then one I remember most. Tony was a very frugal kinda guy, and for that rifle would never have bought a new barrel. He took the factory barrel and lapped it per Calfee's specs. Set it back about 1", and rechambered it in .308NM. Trued up the action, and probably spent a week lapping in the bolt lugs. Used the factory wood stock, but pillar bedded it with some sleeves I had laying around. The rifle's butt ugly, but will shoot .35" groups all the time! Reason I gotta laugh about it is while this was going on two guys we new got new Remington 700PS's in .308. Both guys rebarreled them with Obermeyer barrels and national match chambers. All the gunsmith work was done by a former FBI armorer that did nothing but snipers rifles for them. Their rifles shot well as they should have. But no better than Tony's ugly duckling! Knowing Tony, I doubt he had $200 in the rifle!
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

My question is why so little love for the push feed m70 action ? I have one now that I'm debating whether I should keep and rebarrel it or sell it off. It's a wsm action and it seems well made and I never hear horror storys about them like I have experienced with my 700 Remington.

my push feed Mod. 70 in 6BR will shoot in the mid to low threes if I do my part. But I'll be the first person to tell you I learned a lot of hard lessons with those two Mod. 70's I bought. Looking back at the .223, I think it was doomed from the start due to the barrel quality. Had I simply replaced the barrel and done everything else to it that I did, I think it would have been a .30" rifle. I really liked their design, but the two I had needed some serious work to make them shoot tight groups. Perhaps I could have tried fire lapping the .223 barrel, but just never did.
gary

 

[Bart B]

Any action properly fit to a great barrel then decently put in a stock will drive tacks with good ammo. Tack head diameter's not needed to be bigger than a pin head.

Accuracy's not related to how reliable, maintainable and operable they are.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Mud, I can see this getting into another ****ing contest with you and I'm not going there.

I'll repeat... you can build an accurate rifle off of any action.

That said, some actions tend to have more "issues" and need more work than others which require more cast.

There are a number of ways to weigh the quality of an action to include, fit and finish, appearance, safety, precision machining and craftsmanship, and function.

Specific features to consider include bolt design and construction, extractor type, ejector type, firing pin construction and function, gas porting, type feed, recoil lug design and construction, trigger/safety design and function, receiver design and strength.

No one action has all the best features, design and construction. You can probably find a feature from any one action that is superior to other actions, except maybe the 700. It's an overall good or OK action, but it doesn't have a single feature or component that another action isn't superior to.

I've been reading these threads for years and and 95% of them boil down to a bunch of subjective gobilty goop. I don't care what my Granpappy shot, bless his soul. I'll treasure his gun because it's his gun but that's where it stops. And I don't care that my cousin Billy Bob headshot a deer @ 300 yds with his blankety blank rifle. Some people just do not know how to separate the subjective fantasy world from the objective REAL world. Oh well... That's not me. I don't give a flying spaghetti monster what label the product is wearing or where it was made. I care about one thing only and that's quality and results... I guess that's two things.

So I am going to give you a little anecdotal example of "looking under the hood".

I had heard many great things both in person and on the internet about Sako's. So a few years back I was looking for a new "go to" hunting rifle. Looked at a bunch and got offered a good deal on a really cool looking Sako M85 Finnlight 300 WSM. the action was about the sweetest action I ever worked and it "looked" SWEET. I did not really understand what I was buying at the time but I was to find out the hard way over the next couple of years. You Tikka guys might want to pay attention to this as well.

So I get my rifle, work up some loads and start shooting to see what's best. Nothing is good. My groups are 1 1/2 to 3 MOA. All loads are inconsistent and not one is better than another to include factory loads.

I send it back to Beretta because it has a 1 MOA guarantee. They send it back saying they cleaned it and fired it and there is nothing wrong. I take it back to the range several more times with various loads and same thing. BTW it is wearing a NF NXS scope which I have used on a 300 RUM to shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups. So it's not me and it's not the scope.

So I send it back again. And they return it again saying the same thing and tell me they are going to charge me if I send it back to them again. I am NOT a happy camper now. So I turn to the forum for help and this is what I learn...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/no-recoil-lug-what-say-ye-49659/

Moral of the story... Disregard marketing and endorsements by subjective brand name lovers and flag waivers. Now it's true that a lot of Sako's and Tikkas shoot very well, but I found through this long process that there were a lot of guys like me that got raped by Beretta with poor performing Tikka's and Sako's.

ATM, this rifle is at the smith getting a $200 custom made recoil lug. Mot really sure if that is the problem or the barrel. i will find out through and expensive process of elimination.

One thing I do know is, I will never but another Tikka or Sako based on their recoil design and CS.

After this experience, I started 'looking under the hood"

my favorite hunting rifle is a little short action 700 in .223 N.M. with a .246 neck. Dosn't shoot like a bench gun, and was a serious fight to get it to where it's at right now. But I like that rifle. Not exactly my favorite gun in the safe, but day in day out my favorite to walk in in the field with. My favorites are a
Hi-Wall and a Lo-Wall I own. Next one has to be two Savage 99's in .300 Savage. Of course these four rifles will not shoot with the Remington, but there's just something about them that's addictive.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

And BTW Mud, you are the only person I know or have read to describe your experience with a Howa action in that way. I have owned several different types of rifles and actions and the Howa/Vanguards are among the best, right up there with the M70 than all the rest. Maybe a truck ran over your Howa? or maybe you don't know how to think objectively? Don't have any flying spaghetti monster nightmares tonight.

shot two Howas quite a little bit, and own one. Both worked well right out of the box, and that's about all I could ask for.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

They are good actions. Others are outstanding, marvelous or excellent; a cut, step or jump above good.

Those that are able to observe the difference know it.

personally my favorite action for a hunting rifle is the old Marlin MR7. It's basicly a Mod. 70 with a Remington bolt and a Mod. 70 saftey design. Uses the Browning style blind drop box magazines that are very small in design and can be carried in your pocket. Otherwise it's a WBY MK. V. all the way.
gary

 

[MontanaRifleman]

my favorite hunting rifle is a little short action 700 in .223 N.M. with a .246 neck. Dosn't shoot like a bench gun, and was a serious fight to get it to where it's at right now. But I like that rifle. Not exactly my favorite gun in the safe, but day in day out my favorite to walk in in the field with. My favorites are a
Hi-Wall and a Lo-Wall I own. Next one has to be two Savage 99's in .300 Savage. Of course these four rifles will not shoot with the Remington, but there's just something about them that's addictive.
gary

I fully expect my R700 300 RUM to be a tack driver when it's done, which should be very soon. That said I'll have about 3 times the cost into the action with parts and smithing than either of the Vanguard or S&W 1500 that are getting worked on and the only thing left of the action will be the receiver.

 

[BRIT]

I have a 6.5x284 built on an older Tikka Action. They were called the 690 Action here in UK and had the solid top unlike the later 695. They are an excellent Action and require little if any truing. Flat bottom too and imperial Tenon thread i think. Very slick Action and my 6.5x284 Cases feed fine from the Mags.Mine started life as a 6.5 Swede.

Brit.

 

[Slaysesh]

are sako actions hard to find?? I have one I think I like it a lot! what are they going for now-a-days? would like it for a 6.5X284. and then I have a Remington 700 action I would like to make into a 338 edge (+P) hopefully!