What it takes to get to 800 yards

[Greyfox]

I think that there are two components to becoming proficient at shooting game at long range(+500 yards), the first is the ability of all your gear being set up to hit a target in a given set of conditions, and basic shooting skills. It's a very important component and critical to proceeding onto the hunting part. It's the hunting part that moves the process from being a static situation to becoming substantially more dynamic with every shot at game offering a unique set if variables. Personally, the think the first part has been the tip of the iceberg. Placing a single killing shot into the vital area on an animal at long range can vary from being a chip shot to being virtually impossible depending on the conditions. The most challenging part of this sport for me is being able to distinguish between the two. IMO.

 

[Kennibear]

Greyfox
I second that. Well said!!!

KB

 

[WildRose]

As others have eluded it's all about shot placement and the bullet used. If bullet has high sectional density and adequate velocity, it penetrates, so put it in the vitals and the elk dies.

Remember literally hundreds of Elk are killed every year with pointy sticks.

 

[tomsd]

LOL re: the pointy sticks. I grew up hunting big Mule Deer - as in BIG - in the Cascade mountains of Southern Oregon - around Klamath Falls, - back in the 50's - and there were not too many Elk in the area back then (had to go out to Hart Mountain - 60 or so miles outside of town) - but the ole 30-30 (in my case - a .32 Winchester Special) - would bring em down if they were hit right. More Elk have since moved down from Central Oregon - and a couple of years ago only about 10 miles outside of town - a huge 7 x 7 (scored 405) was taken - that weighed 1,100 pounds. That monster just hung out way over the bed of the pickup truck.

And while I have not done a lot of long range shooting - 500+ yard type - I am familiar with the bullet characterestics of what makes a good long range round - plus the proper "compensation" - and there is even a round/paper wheel type/that turns to different settings for a quick and dirty solution, righto?

I think for me - and pehaps for others - the biggest variable is the wind - and any elevation change there might be. A flot shot - on a calm day - with a good rest - and no "Buck Fever" - is probably the ideal - and then it all can go to hell from there, eh?

 

[tomsd]

That was supposed to read "flat" shot.

And I have read good things - BC/SD wise - about a 190 grain bullet - which used to be factory loaded for the .06 - but haven't seen it lately.

If I can get close to 2,900 fps with a 190 grain bullet - I think that might be one I will be trying to fine tune.

 

[Kennibear]

tomsd

You will need at least a 28" barrel to get 2900fps w/ a 190gr bullet in 30-06. A closer approximation for a 26" barrel would be 2900fps w/ 180gr and 2800fps w/ 190gr.

@ 800yards w/ 1.77" scope height and 230 yard zero:

180gr @ BC= 0.508; 1613 fps, 1039 ftlbs, -152.1" drop

190gr Nosler ABLR BC= 0.640; 1778 fps, 1334 ftlbs, -145.1" drop

So I see the 30-06 as doable to 800 yards, with a good range finder. +1300ftlbs will do fine on an elk. Almost 1800 fps will open up the bullet. Twelve foot of drop is a lot and it drops 4' from 700 to 800 so the rangefinder is a must.

Good luck and good hunting!!!

KB

 

[tomsd]

KB - thanks a "moose". Wow - I have read about 1,000 yard shooters holding hiiiigh - but over 12 feet at "only" 800 yards still takes some getting used to for moi.

Will take sum practice for sure.

And for these calcs - is a 230 yard zero about 3" low at 300 yards?

Again - really appreciate the particulars.

 

[WildRose]

LOL re: the pointy sticks. I grew up hunting big Mule Deer - as in BIG - in the Cascade mountains of Southern Oregon - around Klamath Falls, - back in the 50's - and there were not too many Elk in the area back then (had to go out to Hart Mountain - 60 or so miles outside of town) - but the ole 30-30 (in my case - a .32 Winchester Special) - would bring em down if they were hit right. More Elk have since moved down from Central Oregon - and a couple of years ago only about 10 miles outside of town - a huge 7 x 7 (scored 405) was taken - that weighed 1,100 pounds. That monster just hung out way over the bed of the pickup truck.

And while I have not done a lot of long range shooting - 500+ yard type - I am familiar with the bullet characterestics of what makes a good long range round - plus the proper "compensation" - and there is even a round/paper wheel type/that turns to different settings for a quick and dirty solution, righto?

I think for me - and pehaps for others - the biggest variable is the wind - and any elevation change there might be. A flot shot - on a calm day - with a good rest - and no "Buck Fever" - is probably the ideal - and then it all can go to hell from there, eh?

I know what you mean. I've told the long version of this before, but in short my dad got the Elk Hunting bug back about 75 or so. He'd spent his whole life with his only "deer rifle" or "big game rifle" being an old pump 30-06 he got for Christmas when he was 14.

In prep for the Elk Hunt he spent more money than he could imagine on a 700bdl 7mm Mag and what he thought was a "top quality scope".

Off he goes for his elk hunt and everything that could go wrong did go wrong. He got kicked by the mule, and fell off of three different horses over the course of the ten days and spent four of them in a tent waiting out a blizzard and he seriously thought he was going to die.

On day six he finally gets a shot at an absolute monster bull and his scope had leaked, and was fogged up and his action was frozen solid so he could not chamber a round.

Dejected he comes off of the mountain on day ten, loads it all up and is leaving out when they spot another monster, just a big 5x5 about 500yds off of the road so he pulls over, pulls out the old rifle he'd forgotten and left in the truck and kills it with one shot. That rifle was still wearing the same 4x 32mm weaver that came new on it, same cheap weaver clamp down rings, same factor 180gr Remington cheap ammo.

... .

I don't know that they ever had the bull scored but his main beams are over five feet and tip to tip it's right at 6'2" wide at the top.

The thing was so big they couldn't even get it in the back of the truck without removing the head and legs above the knee and when they got it to the locker plant what they hung weighed 970lbs LOL.

It's funny how things work out sometimes.

 

[Kennibear]

-5.1" @ 300 yards w/230 yard zero (200 meters). Remember scope height is 1.77" which you need for Large Objective Bell Scopes.

If you don't mind a higher mid range it gets better. I use +4" to -6" as the point blank range. In theory you aim 4" below the spine (about 7" below the back) and the bullet will hit from the spine at the top to the boiler room 10" lower. Most elk are large enough to add more to the bottom but I counted it as "Liar's correction". i.e. what I might have guessed wrong on distance. +4"/-6" point blank zero is 274 yards. Mid range (+4") is 153 yards. Point blank is 323 yards.

If you can compensate up close (153 yards in this case which most hunters can guess pretty good) for the 4" rise, this point blank range zero will make things better out further. 300 yards is -1.9" and 800 yards moves to -137". The mid ranges <600 yards are improved even more so less compensation is required. 460 yards is 24" down, 520 yards is 36" down, about 560 yards for 48", and 60" @ 610 yards.

Just a thought on zero. Should probably start a thread asking what your zero is and why.

KB

 

[tomsd]

You guys are really great. Wildrose - love the story about your dad grabbing the ole rifle and nailing the Royal? elk (6x6?). I've had friends miss shots because they forgot they had their scope set on 6 or so - and a Elk walked thru camp and all they saw was brown thru the scope.

My old/trusty Winchester 64 had a 2.5x Weaver - side mounted scope (which left the open sights for a quick/close shot in the brush) - and I thought that scope was great. Now I look thru it and holy cow - with it's now bubbled lens - it really makes me wonder how at a teen I thought it could shoot out to 150 yards - which was rarely needed.

We also had my dad's rifle - a Springfield 03 (as you know - a 30.06) - with a 3x9 Bushnell? scope - which I later learned had a customized Timney trigger and match barrel (a high school classmate's uncle had built/sporterized it) - and it would shoot thru one hole at 100 yards - which I just thought all "odd sixes" did. Yes, "aught" is more proper - but I think some country humor was included in the "odd" pronunciation that was used around my ole home town in the hills of Oregon.,

Another reason I thought all .06's did that is the guy that taught me to hunt (one of my dad's friends) -- was a Native American/Indian (may Buddy RIP - and he was a Modoc - of the warrior tribe - v. the more settled tribe - the Klamath Indians) - who was a Marine sniper in WWII - and he served in the Pacific - but those guys - including my dad who served in Intelligence in the Army in the Pacific theater during WWII - never talked about their war exploits.

Buddy used an .06 (maybe a Winchester 64?) - and he shot his deer thru the eyes to save meat. I was a wide eyed 11 year old when I first went hunting with him - on the reservation where the Mulies were huge - 300 lbs and up - and thought- oh sure he shoots them thru the eyes (as my dad had told me). Well - after the first shot at 90-100 yards was just a smidge high (Buddy has some Korea surplus ammo - tracers) - he nailed it the next time - right thru the eyes.

Anyhow - I sold the Sporterized 03 back to my high school buddy - as he wanted to keep it as a family heirloom/momento - and bought a new .06 - which I am still in the process of breaking in. (On reflecting about it - should have kept that sweet shooter).

The new rig is nothing too fancy - a Mossberg 4x4 - with their Accu like trigger - 24" barrel with 2" muzzle brake (never had a muzzle brake before - it just came with the gun - and my buddy here in SD says it shoots like his .308 - recoil wise) - and got a great deal on it from another friend who is a manager at a local sporting goods store - for under $450 tax included - with a decent/serviceable 3x9x40 scope for breaking it in - and then will drop a much better scope in it when start stretching out to longer ranges.

And I will upgrade from that rifle if I can't get it to shoot under an inch - closer to a half an inch really. I like bargains - and may look for a good/used rifle if this one doesn't do the job - or maybe a Tikka? as I was previously checking out. Other suggestions are certainly welcome.

Was actually going to buy a .300 mag (was I was looking at Tikkas) - and then started thinking about the extra kick (shot a .300 and it didn't really bother me that much - but hey - I am now closer to 70 than 60) - and how with the newer powders (Hornady, etc) - the 2800 plus velocity in a 180 grain - was achievable with a trusty old .06 - so went with that for openers - and will certainly change if need be.

And WB - thanks so much for the continued tips on shooting/ballistics, etc. Really appreciate that.

Will definitely be checking out various options when I get back to the range.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays - and please keep the good advice coming.

Tom in San Diego

 

[AKBman]

Thanks for the replies. I will be working on glass with the higher top end, and I know I need a new range finder, mine barely makes 500 yards on a good reflective surface. I have shot a hundred rounds loaded with the 208 AMax bullets, and they do slip through much better than the 180s, and most of the 200s, I will be trying some 210s soon. I am also going to give AA MagPro a try, just finding powder is difficult, I have a pound and a half of RL 22 left, want to try some Ramshot Magnum if I can find some. Someone mentioned the shot distances around here, they can range from lucky to see 50 yards in the thick timber of the Sacramento Mts, to impossibly long shots across canyons. Oryx hunting I was never able to get closer than 700+ yards due to the terrain, real kick in the gut to watch that many animals, know I couldn't get close enough to shoot one, hence my quest. Next will be seeing if I can get the 375 Ruger to shoot out to 500 yards, I think the right bullet should make it very doable.

 

[Kennibear]

AKBman

Just bought a Savage Weather Warrior in 375 Ruger and had the Factory install a 26" barrel ($450). The first range session was 5 different loads but the one promising load was:
260 grain 375 Nosler AccuBond, 79.5 grains WW760, Federal #215 LRM primer.
3022 fps AV, 9fps SD
Holds 2000ftlbs to 630 yards, 1800fps to 677 yards and zero @ 287 yards is +4" @ 165 yards, -1.9" @ 300 yards, -6" @ 355 yards (point blank range) and -60" @ 620 yards.

Plenty of room in the case so I am trying a slower powder to see if I can get more.
The 375 Ruger is a go to 800 yards no problem.... w/ 26" of tube.

KB

 

[tomsd]

AK - good for ye - and thanks for your Q and the time the guys in here take to respond.

Forgot to mention that a few years ago - maybe 10? - at one of the SD Safari Club meetings/dinners - I was sitting with a guy from the shooting range/club up in Escondido (forget the name of the club at the moment)

For long range fun/hunting - he suggested I buy Remington Sendero - in .300 mag - (26" barrell? - and selling for about $700? back then) - and they would work the action and the receiver connection, etc . He said that all told - I would have a 1,000 yard shooter for under $1,000.

I did shoot a 7 Mag Sendero about the same time out at the South Bay Rod and Gun Club - when one of the guys on the line was letting others shoot it. It was a calm day with hardly any breeze - and there was a 6" or 9" - fairly heavy metal gong hanging out at 300 yards - and I hit it pretty good I guess - as it didn't spin or flip side to side - but rather went backwards a bit and then swung forward.

I don't remember the power of the glass he was using - but it was set up pretty nicely and was a big ole thing.

Hope your .375 works in smoothly - and an Oryx is one of the "tags" I want to have if I ever get over to Namibia. That and a Giant Eland and also - maybe a Sable. Lions and other dangerous game - as you know - really cost a pretty penny.

 

[AKBman]

The 375 is such a great shooter! It is a MOA rifle, I never really intended it to be more than a 350-400 yard rifle, but it has so much potential. Right now I am shooting the Hornady 300gr RN bullets, which are fine to 300, they were inexpensive, and with my pet load of RL 17, they shoot under an inch at 100 yards. I really haven't used all of the horsepower this cartridge is capable of, I wanted a standard action 375 H&H, I got more than that. I have tried the 300gr Sierra BT, they really shine at 300 yards, if I ever get some spare cash lying around, I may buy some of the 350gr Match bullets to try, I will have to single load them, but curiosity is there. With all of the inputs I have a very good direction to go with the 300 Win Mag. The 375 is providing a nice distraction, I even shoot cast bullets in it, 350gr bullets at 2200fps, one ragged hole at 50 yards, we'll see how they do at 100 and 200 very soon.