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What is the best scope on the market PERIOD?

When I first posted in this thread,(it is a four year old thread) my anwer was US Optics. My reasoning was two fold. (A) The fit finish and quality of USO products speaks for it self. (b) At the time I made that post, USO was the only company who was doing top tier build to order optics.

Fast forward to today, and you discover that there are more top tier optics to pick from than when this thread was started.

When it comes to optics we always hear addages such as "you get what you pay for." the inverse is you have to pay for what you get. In my original post, I didn't factor in price. Now price is part of the equation. If you can afford US Optics, Schmidt & Bender and such, this means nothing to you. However, if price is a major consern, the Burris XTR II is hard to beat when you consider what you get. I can buy a 4-20x50 XTR II scope for every rifle in my safe for the price of an ER25 from US Optics. For my money I get a 34mm main tube, front focal plane, a lighted reticle, zero stop, and all the usual features you find on scopes costing two to three times what the XTR II cost. (The 3-15x50 is under $1000.00) Unless you hunt two legged critters for God and country, The XTR II is plenty tough enough.
 
So just for fun the high end Leupold scopes like Mark 6 or Mark 8 don't even get mentioned. Do they not even come close to being a true high end scope? At $3,000 to $5,000+ they are surely priced like a high end scope!

I have no experience with them, but surely someone has at least tested them. If not, why not?
 
IMHO Leupold has an undeservedly high reputation.
There is a saying, "Some people are building a reputation and others are living off their past reputation." To me Leupold is in the latter category.

There are other optics companies out there that have better rifle scopes, spotting scopes and binoculars for the same money as Leupold's top line optics.

And I think that Burris may just begin to surpass Leupold for high quality American made scopes.
 
To quote Burris' own script, "We make most of our products here in the USA."

I dunno which ones they don't make here but I'd bet binoculars, spotting scopes and likely the Eliminator LRF rifle scopes series are made in Japan.
 
I don't know about the rest of their products, but production of Burris rifle scopes was transferred to the Philippines several years ago. Since then every one I've seen has had a "Made in the Philippines" sticker on it.
 
I don't know about the rest of their products, but production of Burris rifle scopes was transferred to the Philippines several years ago. Since then every one I've seen has had a "Made in the Philippines" sticker on it.

Yep! My Burris 4-20x50 Veracity has a "Made in the Philippines" label but the quality control are definitely of "Burris" quality standards IMHO.
 
Hensoldt - steel turrets and scope tube, Zeiss glass; there is no better. The only drawback is the weight. But you have to expect that with the steel tube. Hensoldt was constructed for military use.

some say that many Zeiss scopes have too little eye relief for use with high recoil rifles...great optics and hard to fault them except for that
 
So when I reactivated this thread in September I was hoping to see if anybody was using any new extreme range scopes. I had tried to get a 200MOA 12-50x US Optics custom scope but failed -- for a new .338 /408/Gibbs.505 case based rifle built for 3000yds. My 5-25 S&B is great for hunting on my Snipetac .375 out to about one mile. My .375 AM has a S&B 12-50 which is great to 2200 yds but after that runs out of reticle and I have to use Mil dots for holding over. I also have a Valdata Terminator 12-52 for a .416, a 6-24Meopta, and others like a NF 5.5-22 for a 30-378 and Leuopolds and Nikons for shorter range rifles.

The problem is clearly beyond about 2000yds the options are small because of the balance between power and reticle adjustment range. While some have used adjustable bases I worry about how accurate the precision and return to zero is on these, including th added height, all which would seem to add to potential inaccuracy.
As rifles become more accurate at larger ranges, hopefully we ll see some better extreme range scopes. Does anybody have experience with the custom US Optics scopes that go to 50x power and what dial MOA range do you get?
 
Do you mean liking the Horus scopes or the Horus mil-grid reticles or the concept of using a mil-grid reticle as an alternative to twiddling target knobs?

To use a mil-grid reticle effectively you need a method of converting range measured by some accurate method like a laser rangefinder into mils of drop which requires well prepared range cards or a computer and a method of determining wind deflection over the trajectory which requires good wind doping skills. Basically the same skills needed as to use target knobs. The mil-grid reticle simply short cuts time for using target knobs by simply moving the target to the right place on the mil-grid rather than counting turns and clicks.. It does not speed up determining the elevation and windage offset in mils that is needed for both methods.

One place the mil-grid reticle does offer a considerable advantage over other reticle systems is on taking second shots IF you can see the dust puff or mark mark from a first shot Then its just a matter of putting the reticle back where you aimed the first shot, noting the coordinates where you saw that shot impact, then moving tthat reticle position onto the target and firing again. that can be done in a couple of second Of course it assumes the conditions don't change it that time. Of course if you can't see the bullet impact that doesn't help. For target shooing where the conditions are changing constantly but the target isn't moving the mil-grid advantages disappear.

Best scope on the market PERIOD? I haven't seen any scope ON THE MARKET which can properly measure and correct for wind deflection over the trajectory in terrain where the wind is unlikely to be close to uniform. Measuring the wind at only the shooters location doesn't help much. No available system is better than a shooter skilled at doping wind. And any scope I've seen will break if you drop your rifle 6 feet scope first onto a boulder. So much for most rugged.
A very cheap scope will be best in dollars lost per drop.

That said the last two scopes I've purchased were Horus Raptors. One new and one "too cheap to pass up) One could argue the Falcon model is "better", but it's much heavier and bulkier and offers little advantage. I bought one of those first and still have it. No problems with any of them.

There are high end scopes which have Horus licensed reticles but I see little advantage in spending three times as much to get a US Optics or similar. For snob appeal maybe. but not for bringing home game. No scope is magic. none available can correct for atmospheric scintillation. none correct for fog, rain or snow obscuring obscuring the path. Bigger is just about always heavier and heavier is not best if it has to be carried.

I absolutely concur with Lou's remarks and assessment of the Horus Reticle and the Horus scope. Like Lou and Bruce, I twiddled knobs for years before discovering the Hours system in Iraq. To be honest I hated it when I first used it. The S&B was awesome but the view was all cluttered up and strange, I mean you didn't use dial ups! So I returned to the GenII mildot that I was using. When I came home I watched the Magpul training DVD "The Art of the Precision Rifle" and absorbed everything Todd Hodnett was teaching about the Horus System.

What an epiphany! Given you had means of determining range, good dope and could dope the wind, a first focal plane scope with a Horus H-58, H-59, or like me the H-37 reticle, first round hits beyond what was considered at that time 'long range' were expected. No knob twisting, no looking up to make sure you setting was correct, no returning to zero, no risk of over twisting a knob, no worries about set screws coming loose from yanking knobs back and forth... life was good! But like Todd Hodnett has said, learning the Horus system was a venture 'outside my comfort zone', but a venture well worth the incidental discomfort and time.

So a couple of years ago I decided to save up my lunch money and purchase a quality scope with a Horus reticle. I took my time, researched, spoke with folks I respected and considered experts like Mr. Boyd, Mr. Ventura, and Mr. Hodnett, US Army AMU and SOTIC instructors, shooters and team members. I sought out folks with the scopes I was considering... US Optics, March, S&B, Leupold, Nighforce, Burris, Bushnell and Vortex. One fella had a Horus Falcon with the H-59 reticle and my interest was piqued. The more I shot it, the more I like it. Yep it's a bit heavier, but that steel body is an absolute security blanket when it comes to humping around in unforgiving terrain, and in my humble opinion, "if you can't hump it, don't pack it".

To me the Horus Falcon compared with S&B as far as clarity, color distortion (lack of), edge to edge at all magnifications, and dusk and dawn light gathering, and exceeded the others mentioned in one way or the other. The kicker was the price of the Horus Falcon. I was buying riflescope of exceptional quality without the exceptional price, I could eat lunch again!! The scopes that I thought were exceptional were US Optics and March, but then again so was the price.

When I started my quest I had decided on a Horus reticle, but it was totally open regarding which brand, without prejudice, preference, or sponsorship. So now I happily own the steel bodied Horus Falcon with the H-37 reticle and have absolutely no complaints whatsoever. All I can recommend when considering going without lunch for a long time to buy your once in a lifetime riflescope is to keep an open mind, don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone, actually look at and attempt to use what you are considering buying and seek expert opinion and recommendations...positive and negative. I did, thanks go out to my mentors!

DocB

"Animo et Fide" ... Courage and Faith
 
Doc B.,

The Horus Falcon was my 2nd choice after the Bushnell ERS 3.5- 21 for the exact reasons your cite. The Falcon's steel tube, Horus reticle choices and "lighter" price are very attractive.

I got the Bushnell ERS because I got a good deal on the H 59 reticle version plus its predecessor, the DMR, was rated "best for the money" in long range tactical scopes.

Looks like we are both satisfied with our choices and both of us like the versatility of the Horus reticles.

Now all I want is the Kestrel 4500/Applied Ballistics weather station & ballistics computer combo. That little instrument combined with a good laser rangefinder gives the best ballistic solutions period. Now to find an LRF with Bluetooth so it communicates with the Kestrel unit and I don't have to manually input the range. Totally automatic!
 
So when I reactivated this thread in September I was hoping to see if anybody was using any new extreme range scopes. I had tried to get a 200MOA 12-50x US Optics custom scope but failed -- for a new .338 /408/Gibbs.505 case based rifle built for 3000yds. My 5-25 S&B is great for hunting on my Snipetac .375 out to about one mile. My .375 AM has a S&B 12-50 which is great to 2200 yds but after that runs out of reticle and I have to use Mil dots for holding over. I also have a Valdata Terminator 12-52 for a .416, a 6-24Meopta, and others like a NF 5.5-22 for a 30-378 and Leuopolds and Nikons for shorter range rifles.

The problem is clearly beyond about 2000yds the options are small because of the balance between power and reticle adjustment range. While some have used adjustable bases I worry about how accurate the precision and return to zero is on these, including th added height, all which would seem to add to potential inaccuracy.
As rifles become more accurate at larger ranges, hopefully we ll see some better extreme range scopes. Does anybody have experience with the custom US Optics scopes that go to 50x power and what dial MOA range do you get?

Not sure if you seen the Arc-Rizer™ 150 MOA rail >>> Home
 
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