What is the best scope on the market PERIOD?

[MarkChambers]

Interesting post LouBoyd and I suppose it's the result of my not providing a quote or at least the name the individual I was addressing. Litehiker said "I own an ERS with an H59 reticle" and it was to that my question was directed. So the question was directed at the reticle not the make of scope it's in. I wanted some feedback from an individual experienced in its use in the field. That is all. So after wading through the first 4 paragraphs of your response I finally arrived at this:

That said the last two scopes I've purchased were Horus Raptors.

Ah there we go. Limited though it is as to the information provided I'll take it as your tacit approval of the system.

As for your last paragraph well good for you. I happen to like high end glass. I like it in my binoculars, my telescope, my camera lenses and, naturally, my rifle scopes. You can call me a snob if you like.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I vote NF beast or SB PMII

 

[Danehunter]

Mark,

My Horus H59 reticle is very easy to use once you get accustomed to the method.

Some say the reticle is "too busy" but it is actually the best I've seen for speed of a second shot if you see where the 1st shot impacted.

This reticle is better by a bunch than "turret turning" but the Bushnell ERS has great turrets when you need them - totally repeatable adjustments.

Lou,

For hunting I'm using my Bushnell 1 Mile ARC laser rangefinder binoculars. Good glass but not great however the ranging is excellent and the built-in ballistic software and readout gets me to "minute of deer". Wind, temperature and "station pressure" are up to me to calculate.

But, for THE best firing solution I'm getting a Kestrel 4500 weather station with the Applied Ballistics software to account for ALL environmental conditions after I enter the range. That little gadget is fast and very accurate, far better than entering data with a stylus into a "ballistic computer".
"Measuring the wind at only the shooter's position doesn't help much." Well Lou, ballistically speaking wind at the FFP is FAR more important than downrange wind. I'll have to take the Kestrel's advice, including FFP wind, until something better comes along. I always was terrible at wind calls until I only began paying attention to wind at MY position.

 

[MarkChambers]

Litehiker thanks for the response. Whether or not one is in an environment that allows a visual on a miss (usually not in Michigan) it seems to me that the reticle layout would make windage holds "in the field" much easier. True? Of course that might be true for any of the Christmas Tree type reticles--NF Velocity or Leupold and Zeiss Varmint for example.

 

[Danehunter]

Mark,
The temptation to buy "ballistic" reticles is that you feel they will answer the hold for your cartridge. The fact is that they are usually calibrated at or near sea level at 70 F. or thereabouts. But how often do you hunt in those conditions??

The truth is that when you REALLY need a hold over at say 7,000 ft. at 0 F. at 565 yards the ballistic reticles will lie to you.Thus the case for mil hash reticles and a good rangefinder. (AND my idea of a great firing solution "machine", the Kestrel 4500 which has the A.B. software and Kestrel computer.) It will give you your hold in mils or MOA and it will be very, very close.

BTW, often the humidity is high enough to see a bullet trace so even without an observed impact you can get a very close idea of the hit - and a good spotter helps here too.

 

[MarkChambers]

Thanks!

 

[MarkChambers]

Mark,
The temptation to buy "ballistic" reticles is that you feel they will answer the hold for your cartridge.

Not really. Even when using a capable ballistics program that calculates the wind compensation the extended hash marks provide an anchor for the hold. I don't have to choose between dialing for the wind or floating it out there on a guess.

 

[Jay Kyle]

Here's a good read..

Best Tactical Scopes – What The Pros Use | PrecisionRifleBlog.com

and also in the same blog, some exhaustive testing..

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/07/01/tactical-scopes-field-test-overview-rifle-scope-line-up/

Jay

 

[Danehunter]

I agree Mark, those mil hash marks (and dots) on a NON ballistic reticle like the H 59 to TREMOR reticle are great for windage hold hold off and the Xmas tree horizontal cross lines are needed for trajectory hold over. On a ballistic reticle they are "OK" for windage hold but usually in the wrong place for trajectory hold.

Horus style reticles are not ballistic reticles but "reference reticles" to use when your calculator says
"2.5 mils over, 0.8 mils R. windage". A ballistic reticle like Burris, Nikon, et al cannot be used with a ballistic calculator because they are not true mils or MOA but trajectory approximations.

 

[Chandalar]

I prefer a Hours Reticle, that said you can take a ballistics reticled scope to your range, laser range find 100 yards, set a yard stick in a bucket of sand with a level, go back to the bench turn the power to the highest setting and "lay off" the lines that are in the scope, a MOA is 1.074" so it pretty close. Looking through the scope, where ever there is a sub-tension line, right the inch(and decimal) number down, such as 1.75 inch. If you know the BC, velocity, scope height, ect you can use this info and a JBM program to generate the MOA elevation and windage adjustments ( maybe yours has windage lines as well. Again is not a Horus, but it will be more accurate and effective(after you have trued the sub-tension lines) than the one size fits all Balistic caint miss reticle. This BC reticle turned up on the highest setting (this keeps it static -first focal plane like-) can also then be used to accurately measure distance out to about 700 yards if you know the size of the object you are ranging, like a moose's chest @33" on average. Once the animals get less than 3-4 minutes its not that effective any more, but between 100 and 700 yards its very accurate if the animal will hold still. My example is to show that the Ballistic reticle can be used ad a reference reticle as well with calculator.

 

[MarkChambers]

A ballistic reticle like Burris, Nikon, et al cannot be used with a ballistic calculator because they are not true mils

But a Gen2 XR is laid out in true mil radian format. It is not as well populated as the Horus having extensions only at 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 mils, but it is a true mrad reticle.

 

[Danehunter]

Mark, that is good to know about the Gen. 2 XR.
Do you think this kind of true mil hash reticle W/"tree" will become more widespread among other brands?

 

[bruce_ventura]

The Swarovski BRX and BRH reticles also have true mrad sub-tensions: 1 mrad between dots and 1/2 mrad between a line and a dot.

 

[MarkChambers]

Mark, that is good to know about the Gen. 2 XR.
Do you think this kind of true mil hash reticle W/"tree" will become more widespread among other brands?

I have no idea. It is certainly inferior to the Horus. Once past the 2nd mil extension there are two mil gaps between the extensions. There is a lot of free air to have to float a wind hold in.