what is the best deer bullet in 30 cal --expansion vs. penetration

[VinceMule]

For ranges here in the South, std Sierra cup and core, hornady cup and core, Mid to Heavy for caliber SST, all do an incredible job.

Light for caliber partitions are beyond awesome in terminal performance, just ask anyone that has shot 270 with 130g partitions at 3000, 30/06 with 150g Partitions., 6mm/243 win with 95-100g Partitions, and any number of 25 calibers with 100g Partitions that proved to be 1/2" bullets. In the various 6.5s, 129g Hornady Interlock has proven to act exactly like a partition up to 3150 fps.

If you like an LRAB, the Mid to heavy for caliber, they will impress in how fast they put a deer on the ground. Some of the LRAB are worth building a rifle around, but not all of them, and I consider them a much better bullet than a burger due to penetration and massive tissue damage....best of both worlds. Large Hogs make for a great test medium at some distance.

If I had to pick one bullet for penetration and expansion, the 165g Hornady flat base is incredible. Lever powder in the 308 gets this to incredible velocities with extremes in accuracy if you are an advanced reloader.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

So if we're talking home or self defense, and I don't want over penetration, then yes, I want all the energy dumped into the target. Otherwise, I want two holes rather than one.

Ponder this. If you hit a target wearing a plated vest with a rifle bullet and the bullet stops at the plate, hasn't' all of the energy been deposited on the target with less than desirable results? Or perhaps it goes through the plate and stops inside the target? Does that mean that all that energy guarantees a kill?

So equate this with a less than desirable shot hitting bone(s) and you may have something similar to the hypothetical above. Potentially, eating too much energy, unwanted deflection, undesirable expansion or unwanted fragmentation. This has definitely been my experience with Bergers. I've had them not expand much and blow an exit hole through animals and I've had great shots with an animal run away with no blood trail. Both of these experiences were on deer and the former was much better than the latter, obviously. Very unpredictable.

To me, energy is only part of the equation. Knowledge of anatomy and the disruption of the anatomy is also very important. I will also say, the guarantee of a larger exit hole out than entrance also maximizes blood loss and, more often than not, causes a much better blood trail. This has been my experience anyway.

This is why I like monoliths or bonded bullets. If you know when not to take the shot, like too far away for optimal terminal performance, they're more reliable when they do hit the target. The one caveat is a really crappy shot is a really crappy shot and will not bring home the bacon regardless of which bullet you use.

Lastly, I like the monoliths or bonded bullets as I can hold a wolf, bear, deer, and elk tags at the same time in MT. I choose the heaviest of duty bullets for my rifle to conquer all the possible species listed above. This also includes a charging griz.

Regarding Cape buffalo: hunters in Africa use solids for the most dangerous game coupled with extremely large calibers for the combo of big hole(s), big energy, and maximum penetration. Not really applicable for this deer conversation.

 

[shaughn]

Cape Buffalo question was in regard to the "Energy Dump " theory only tangentially pertaining to the deer bullet.

 

[VinceMule]

my brother shot a 360 lb Kansas Buck at 550 yards with a 140g Nosler combined tec bullet out of a 7 STW, MV 3600, which dropped him in his tracks. We put out a food plot where the closest shot was 500 yards with about 575 being the longest. We killed a LOT of deer on that food plot out of the "STW" stand with the load above, three different rifles with .030 freebore chambers set up for the 140g CT bullet.

 

[FEENIX]

As far as I know, Norma was the first (and perhaps the only one at this time) to illustrate/measure energy transfer (energy dump or whatever terminology other people use) in a video/gel test.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

That's a good look at the effects of penetration AND expansion it appears.
I likey.

 

[asd9055]

That's a good look at the effects of penetration AND expansion it appears.
I likey.

I always had prompt responses when ever I reached out, I just wished they did away with the CD and offered a direct download.

 

[Jmatt]

If there's one thing I've learned in the years that I've been reading this forum, it's that there is no one bullet. Each bullet seems to be designed to give optimal terminal performance within a given velocity range. Some have wider effective ranges, some narrower. Some are meant to penetrate, and some are meant to expand, and some do a little or a lot of both.

I hunted with traditional archery equipment for the first twenty years that I hunted so even with a gun I'm still looking to center punch both lungs. So for me, penetration really isn't very important. It's just not that much to ask any bullet to travel through skin, a rib, two lungs, another rib, and skin. I just need my bullet to expand upon initial resistance. Then again, I never walk up to my deer and say, "Well, it must've entered the sphincter and exited the right nostril!"

Only the OP knows how he hunts, and therefore what bullet will work best for him.

 

[baldhunter]

My favorite 30 cal bullet for deer is the 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.Not only do my rifles shoot this bullet extremely well,their performance on deer has been excellent.Shot placement is the most important key to success,but bullet choice is too.Some bullets are too hard and will pass through leaving very little sign on the ground if the deer runs off after being hit.Some on the other hand may be too soft and destroy way too much meat.I've killed a dozen deer with the 168gr NBT out of my 30-06.Every one was DRT.Every bullet exited.Every bullet passed through the heart/lung chest cavity of the deer,leaving a very noticeable trail of blood and lung tissue some 10-20yds beyond the offside of the deer.Exit holes on the deer around 1.5". Amount of bloodshot tissue around entrance and exit I'd consider minimal.They hit very hard too.The last one I killed with this bullet was quartering away.I hit him mid chest tight against the shoulder and the bullet exited in front of the offside shoulder.When I loaded up the deer I noticed the offside shoulder leg was broke.When I quartered him out,I found the bullet did not hit the offside shoulder,but the impact was so hard that it broke the leg bone below the scapula.So I guess that shows you,even though the bullet exited,a large amount of the energy was delivered right where it needed to be,inside the chest cavity.

 

[shaughn]

The ammunition companies all do ballistics jell testing, they just don't post much of it for the public at large.

If people are interested read papers by Dr. Martin L. Fackler , it will give one a better understanding of how bullets work, it is both dry and technical.

Nathan Foster has also done a fair bit of real world testing of various bullets and has a study he did for a Government that makes for an interesting read, for those who have the proper clearances, not for the faint of heart.

Bullet design for hunting is probably the hardest field of endeavour out there and our choices are an ongoing compromise.

But what a way to have fun.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

The ammunition companies all do ballistics jell testing, they just don't post much of it for the public at large.

If people are interested read papers by Dr. Martin L. Fackler , it will give one a better understanding of how bullets work, it is both dry and technical.

Nathan Foster has also done a fair bit of real world testing of various bullets and has a study he did for a Government that makes for an interesting read, for those who have the proper clearances, not for the faint of heart.

Bullet design for hunting is probably the hardest field of endeavour out there and our choices are an ongoing compromise.

But what a way to have fun.

And wow what a long line of good choices we have today.
That sure hasn't always been the case.!