What does my rifle's first trip to the range tell me?

[MoreSalsa]

ADDED NOTES:

1. RIGHT NOW I NEED TO USE LEAD-FREE AMMO. LEAD AMMO NOT AN OPTION. I may in the future hunt in areas that allow lead, but right now I'm going to be hunting in lead-free only areas.
2. I'M NOT CURRENTLY HANDLOADING (AND WON'T BE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE). I'm happy to hear about how handloading might be what I need to do, but just please note that it's not currently an option for solving what I need to solve for today.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, I want to thank this forum and its members ... in the last few months, the responses and info on here have been invaluable in helping me to decide on a new hunting rifle, scope, and hunting ammo.

It's been a journey, especially with all the supply-chain challenges and regulatory issues in my state, but I have finally gotten to the point of having all of the equipment, getting it put together, and making one test run at the range this weekend. I thought I'd throw all of the data out there and see if any of you much more experienced folks would have any thoughts on what it tells me. One thing to note is that my next hunting trip is coming up quick, so I don't have a ton of time to fine tune everything. If any more data points are needed, just ask!

My new rifle is a Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 6.5 Creedmoor (24'' barrel), with an ultralight SWFA 2.5-10 scope. I wanted to sight it in at 200 yard for a long PBR, and the 200y range's hours were limited, so I just started and stayed there. The ammo that I tried was (1) Sig Sauer Elite Performance Copper Hunting 120 grains (non-tipped) and (2) Nosler E-Tip (lead-free) 120 grains. (Non-lead is required in many of the places where I'll hunt, and those are two of the non-lead loads I could actually get my hands on without paying through the nose. They are not necessarily the loads I would have chosen.)

I sighted in with the Sig ammo. The first round was a F2F (I set it aside). That was a bit jarring, but luckily that was the only one. After that, the groups moved more or less consistently as I adjusted the elevation and windage, but accuracy was not great (~1.3 MOA groups on average). Some of this was no doubt due to wind, which was all over the place in terms of direction, speed, etc. (average was maybe 8 mph), as well as my shooting, which I think was worse when I started than when I finished (I was rusty). But then I switched to the Nosler and it was clear that sub-MOA groups were possible (first 3-shot group was .85 MOA). It was hitting 4 inches low, with windage right on. It definitely made me feel better about my shooting. Interpreting this as my rifle strongly preferring the Nosler, I re-sighted in with that ammo (brought it up to the bull's eye easily).

I started with a clean bore and other than the first three shots, which I rushed, I waited at least 3 mins. in between shots (usually more). And of course this was a near never-fired gun, and I'm not sure if that is something that should color the analysis (should I be breaking it in more before I draw any conclusions?) At the end of the day, I had sent a total of 25 rounds down the pipe.

I also had some Barnes Vor-Tx LRX 127 grain and Sig Sauer 140 grain match loads, but I didn't get to try either load. Assuming it shoots well in my rifle, I'd like to use the Barnes as a load for longer range shots (~250+ yards).

My take on all of this is that (1) my gun likes the Nosler a lot more than the Sig and (2) the Nosler shoots and should perform well enough to serve as a good hunting load for deer, antelope, and hogs, out to at least 300-ish yards. Based on that, I'm thinking I should try to buy some more of the Nosler ammo (I don't have a lot) and give up on the Sig ammo (I can sell it to the local gun store).

Does this make sense? On #1, am I giving up on the Sig ammo too easily? I have more of it on hand, and it probably won't be super easy to get more of the Nosler. The Sig was shot from a clean bore and brand new rifle, with shifting winds. On the other hand, its performance was pretty consistent. On #2, the Nosler looks good to me as a factory hunting round, but tell me if I should be expecting more. Obviously, my ability to try new rounds is not unlimited in light of the current market and my limited time frame.

Also, I should be able to visit a 300 yard range in the next few weeks. My thought is that I'll try to test out the Barnes LRX to see where it is hitting at 300 yards, with the idea that it could be a round to use for longer range shots. I only have 40 rounds of it and it looks like that is all I'm going to have for the time being, so I want to be as strategic as possible about how I use it. But not sure if I am thinking about this in a way that makes sense.

 

[Deviant]

First of all, I want to thank this forum and its members ... in the last few months, the responses and info on here have been invaluable in helping me to decide on a new hunting rifle, scope, and hunting ammo.

It's been a journey, especially with all the supply-chain challenges and regulatory issues in my state, but I have finally gotten to the point of having all of the equipment, getting it put together, and making one test run at the range this weekend. I thought I'd throw all of the data out there and see if any of you much more experienced folks would have any thoughts on what it tells me. One thing to note is that my next hunting trip is coming up quick, so I don't have a ton of time to fine tune everything. If any more data points are needed, just ask!

My new rifle is a Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 6.5 Creedmoor (24'' barrel), with an ultralight SWFA 2.5-10 scope. I wanted to sight it in at 200 yard for a long PBR, and the 200y range's hours were limited, so I just started and stayed there. The ammo that I tried was (1) Sig Sauer Elite Performance Copper Hunting 120 grains (non-tipped) and (2) Nosler E-Tip (lead-free) 120 grains. (Non-lead is required in many of the places where I'll hunt, and those are two of the non-lead loads I could actually get my hands on without paying through the nose. They are not necessarily the loads I would have chosen.)

I sighted in with the Sig ammo. The first round was a F2F (I set it aside). That was a bit jarring, but luckily that was the only one. After that, the groups moved more or less consistently as I adjusted the elevation and windage, but accuracy was not great (~1.3 MOA groups on average). Some of this was no doubt due to wind, which was all over the place in terms of direction, speed, etc. (average was maybe 8 mph), as well as my shooting, which I think was worse when I started than when I finished (I was rusty). But then I switched to the Nosler and it was clear that sub-MOA groups were possible (first 3-shot group was .85 MOA). It was hitting 4 inches low, with windage right on. It definitely made me feel better about my shooting. Interpreting this as my rifle strongly preferring the Nosler, I re-sighted in with that ammo (brought it up to the bull's eye easily).

I started with a clean bore and other than the first three shots, which I rushed, I waited at least 3 mins. in between shots (usually more). And of course this was a near never-fired gun, and I'm not sure if that is something that should color the analysis (should I be breaking it in more before I draw any conclusions?)

I also had some Barnes Vor-Tx LRX 127 grain and Sig Sauer 140 grain match loads, but I didn't get to try either load. Assuming it shoots well in my rifle, I'd like to use the Barnes as a load for longer range shots (~250+ yards).

My take on all of this is that (1) my gun likes the Nosler a lot more than the Sig and (2) the Nosler shoots and should perform well enough to serve as a good hunting load for deer, antelope, and hogs, out to at least 300-ish yards. Based on that, I'm thinking I should try to buy some more of the Nosler ammo (I don't have a lot) and give up on the Sig ammo (I can sell it to the local gun store).

Does this make sense? On #1, am I giving up on the Sig ammo too easily? I have more of it on hand, and it probably won't be super easy to get more of the Nosler. The Sig was shot from a clean bore and brand new rifle, with shifting winds. On the other hand, its performance was pretty consistent. On #2, the Nosler looks good to me as a factory hunting round, but tell me if I should be expecting more. Obviously, my ability to try new rounds is not unlimited in light of the current market and my limited time frame.

Also, I should be able to visit a 300 yard range in the next few weeks. My thought is that I'll try to test out the Barnes LRX to see where it is hitting at 300 yards, with the idea that it could be a round to use for longer range shots. I only have 40 rounds of it and it looks like that is all I'm going to have for the time being, so I want to be as strategic as possible about how I use it. But not sure if I am thinking about this in a way that makes sense.

Just my 2 cents but I would try a few more loads in the gun that will perform well at any range of hunting and stick with one load. In my experience if the ammo doesn't group well in the beginning it likely won't get any better even after the barrel is broke in. If you can find someone to develop a load for you that has experience reloading that would be ideal.

 

[MoreSalsa]

Just my 2 cents but I would try a few more loads in the gun that will perform well at any range of hunting and stick with one load. In my experience if the ammo doesn't group well in the beginning it likely won't get any better even after the barrel is broke in. If you can find someone to develop a load for you that has experience reloading that would be ideal.

I hear you on one load for all ranges, but having done a lot of research (including my previous post on 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo for hunting), I'm not sure I believe that there are bullets that perform all that well at all ranges. Also, it seems less likely when you are limiting your choices to non-lead. One good thing is that 500 (probably more realistically 400) yards is probably the longest I would ever take a hunting shot, so my shooting distance range is not as wide as it is with many hunters.

Maybe the LRX fits the bill to some degree (they certainly market it that way), but that leads to the problem that it has been very difficult for me to get a hold of. I feel lucky to have gotten my hands on 40 rounds. Same with Hammer loads but those seem even harder to get, at least if you don't want to spend a super high price per round.

On lead bullets, one thing is that I'm not crazy about is a lot of lead fragmentation, which seems to be one issue at short ranges with some of the bullets designed to maximize long range terminal performance.

I am considering looking into sending my rifle in and getting some custom loads made after my next hunt ... probably depends on how well I can do with the factory ammo that I try.

 

[Recon$$]

If it don't shoot move on. My seekins 6.5 prc really likes the 140 range.

 

[TXTrained]

alot of guns need to get 120 to 150 rounds down the barrel before they settle down and shoot good groups.
You may have got lucky and found one it likes right off.
If you are not a serious reloader I'd stick with Factory ammo.If you get in a pinch you can go to the store and get some.If you run out of reloads from some guy you may not be able to get any if you are out of town.
I'd give your rifle a little time and shoot it for about 6 boxes and then see how she shoots.Good luck

 

[Joefrazell]

First of all, I want to thank this forum and its members ... in the last few months, the responses and info on here have been invaluable in helping me to decide on a new hunting rifle, scope, and hunting ammo.

It's been a journey, especially with all the supply-chain challenges and regulatory issues in my state, but I have finally gotten to the point of having all of the equipment, getting it put together, and making one test run at the range this weekend. I thought I'd throw all of the data out there and see if any of you much more experienced folks would have any thoughts on what it tells me. One thing to note is that my next hunting trip is coming up quick, so I don't have a ton of time to fine tune everything. If any more data points are needed, just ask!

My new rifle is a Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 6.5 Creedmoor (24'' barrel), with an ultralight SWFA 2.5-10 scope. I wanted to sight it in at 200 yard for a long PBR, and the 200y range's hours were limited, so I just started and stayed there. The ammo that I tried was (1) Sig Sauer Elite Performance Copper Hunting 120 grains (non-tipped) and (2) Nosler E-Tip (lead-free) 120 grains. (Non-lead is required in many of the places where I'll hunt, and those are two of the non-lead loads I could actually get my hands on without paying through the nose. They are not necessarily the loads I would have chosen.)

I sighted in with the Sig ammo. The first round was a F2F (I set it aside). That was a bit jarring, but luckily that was the only one. After that, the groups moved more or less consistently as I adjusted the elevation and windage, but accuracy was not great (~1.3 MOA groups on average). Some of this was no doubt due to wind, which was all over the place in terms of direction, speed, etc. (average was maybe 8 mph), as well as my shooting, which I think was worse when I started than when I finished (I was rusty). But then I switched to the Nosler and it was clear that sub-MOA groups were possible (first 3-shot group was .85 MOA). It was hitting 4 inches low, with windage right on. It definitely made me feel better about my shooting. Interpreting this as my rifle strongly preferring the Nosler, I re-sighted in with that ammo (brought it up to the bull's eye easily).

I started with a clean bore and other than the first three shots, which I rushed, I waited at least 3 mins. in between shots (usually more). And of course this was a near never-fired gun, and I'm not sure if that is something that should color the analysis (should I be breaking it in more before I draw any conclusions?) At the end of the day, I had sent a total of 25 rounds down the pipe.

I also had some Barnes Vor-Tx LRX 127 grain and Sig Sauer 140 grain match loads, but I didn't get to try either load. Assuming it shoots well in my rifle, I'd like to use the Barnes as a load for longer range shots (~250+ yards).

My take on all of this is that (1) my gun likes the Nosler a lot more than the Sig and (2) the Nosler shoots and should perform well enough to serve as a good hunting load for deer, antelope, and hogs, out to at least 300-ish yards. Based on that, I'm thinking I should try to buy some more of the Nosler ammo (I don't have a lot) and give up on the Sig ammo (I can sell it to the local gun store).

Does this make sense? On #1, am I giving up on the Sig ammo too easily? I have more of it on hand, and it probably won't be super easy to get more of the Nosler. The Sig was shot from a clean bore and brand new rifle, with shifting winds. On the other hand, its performance was pretty consistent. On #2, the Nosler looks good to me as a factory hunting round, but tell me if I should be expecting more. Obviously, my ability to try new rounds is not unlimited in light of the current market and my limited time frame.

Also, I should be able to visit a 300 yard range in the next few weeks. My thought is that I'll try to test out the Barnes LRX to see where it is hitting at 300 yards, with the idea that it could be a round to use for longer range shots. I only have 40 rounds of it and it looks like that is all I'm going to have for the time being, so I want to be as strategic as possible about how I use it. But not sure if I am thinking about this in a way that makes sense.

What I'd take away is it's time to start hand loading. Buy some 147 eldm's and some h4350 and it should be a 1/2" gun. I'd be shocked if it didn't get really close with this combo. This load shoots really well in all creedmoors I've tried it in. Even a crappy mossberg went sub moa 5 shots after load work up. I personally think it's the ammo. My most accurate rifle is a factory tikka ctr and it shoots this load in the .1's- .3's regularly and even it has been only maybe moa with some other loads I've tried. Ammo makes a big difference and I think you just haven't found a good one yet. I'd buy some factory 140 or 147 eldm's if you don't wanna handload. If it doesn't shoot that to your satisfaction I'd send it back to seekins. I would t waste a bunch of ammo that's for sure. After all it's not 2019 anymore. Good luck

 

[Orange Dust]

I hear you on one load for all ranges, but having done a lot of research (including my previous post on 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo for hunting), I'm not sure I believe that there are bullets that perform all that well at all ranges. Also, it seems less likely when you are limiting your choices to non-lead. One good thing is that 500 (probably more realistically 400) yards is probably the longest I would ever take a hunting shot, so my shooting distance range is not as wide as it is with many hunters.

Maybe the LRX fits the bill to some degree (they certainly market it that way), but that leads to the problem that it has been very difficult for me to get a hold of. I feel lucky to have gotten my hands on 40 rounds. Same with Hammer loads but those seem even harder to get, at least if you don't want to spend a super high price per round.

On lead bullets, one thing is that I'm not crazy about is a lot of lead fragmentation, which seems to be one issue at short ranges with some of the bullets designed to maximize long range terminal performance.

I am considering looking into sending my rifle in and getting some custom loads made after my next hunt ... probably depends on how well I can do with the factory ammo that I try.

No worries about led frag unless you want to eat bullet wounds. The LRX will be a slow killer. Monos need a healthy dose of velocity for quick kills. You will have better performance and quicker kills with the little cartridge with non bonded lead core bullets.

 

[spladi]

First of all, I want to thank this forum and its members ... in the last few months, the responses and info on here have been invaluable in helping me to decide on a new hunting rifle, scope, and hunting ammo.

It's been a journey, especially with all the supply-chain challenges and regulatory issues in my state, but I have finally gotten to the point of having all of the equipment, getting it put together, and making one test run at the range this weekend. I thought I'd throw all of the data out there and see if any of you much more experienced folks would have any thoughts on what it tells me. One thing to note is that my next hunting trip is coming up quick, so I don't have a ton of time to fine tune everything. If any more data points are needed, just ask!

My new rifle is a Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 6.5 Creedmoor (24'' barrel), with an ultralight SWFA 2.5-10 scope. I wanted to sight it in at 200 yard for a long PBR, and the 200y range's hours were limited, so I just started and stayed there. The ammo that I tried was (1) Sig Sauer Elite Performance Copper Hunting 120 grains (non-tipped) and (2) Nosler E-Tip (lead-free) 120 grains. (Non-lead is required in many of the places where I'll hunt, and those are two of the non-lead loads I could actually get my hands on without paying through the nose. They are not necessarily the loads I would have chosen.)

I sighted in with the Sig ammo. The first round was a F2F (I set it aside). That was a bit jarring, but luckily that was the only one. After that, the groups moved more or less consistently as I adjusted the elevation and windage, but accuracy was not great (~1.3 MOA groups on average). Some of this was no doubt due to wind, which was all over the place in terms of direction, speed, etc. (average was maybe 8 mph), as well as my shooting, which I think was worse when I started than when I finished (I was rusty). But then I switched to the Nosler and it was clear that sub-MOA groups were possible (first 3-shot group was .85 MOA). It was hitting 4 inches low, with windage right on. It definitely made me feel better about my shooting. Interpreting this as my rifle strongly preferring the Nosler, I re-sighted in with that ammo (brought it up to the bull's eye easily).

I started with a clean bore and other than the first three shots, which I rushed, I waited at least 3 mins. in between shots (usually more). And of course this was a near never-fired gun, and I'm not sure if that is something that should color the analysis (should I be breaking it in more before I draw any conclusions?) At the end of the day, I had sent a total of 25 rounds down the pipe.

I also had some Barnes Vor-Tx LRX 127 grain and Sig Sauer 140 grain match loads, but I didn't get to try either load. Assuming it shoots well in my rifle, I'd like to use the Barnes as a load for longer range shots (~250+ yards).

My take on all of this is that (1) my gun likes the Nosler a lot more than the Sig and (2) the Nosler shoots and should perform well enough to serve as a good hunting load for deer, antelope, and hogs, out to at least 300-ish yards. Based on that, I'm thinking I should try to buy some more of the Nosler ammo (I don't have a lot) and give up on the Sig ammo (I can sell it to the local gun store).

Does this make sense? On #1, am I giving up on the Sig ammo too easily? I have more of it on hand, and it probably won't be super easy to get more of the Nosler. The Sig was shot from a clean bore and brand new rifle, with shifting winds. On the other hand, its performance was pretty consistent. On #2, the Nosler looks good to me as a factory hunting round, but tell me if I should be expecting more. Obviously, my ability to try new rounds is not unlimited in light of the current market and my limited time frame.

Also, I should be able to visit a 300 yard range in the next few weeks. My thought is that I'll try to test out the Barnes LRX to see where it is hitting at 300 yards, with the idea that it could be a round to use for longer range shots. I only have 40 rounds of it and it looks like that is all I'm going to have for the time being, so I want to be as strategic as possible about how I use it. But not sure if I am thinking about this in a way that makes sense.

Non lead bullets are foreign to most of us I think, so I would go with the Nosler you say shoot .85 MOA @ 200, or try to duplicate the load with a reloading friend if you cant find loaded ammo.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I note two things.

One, take your .22LR along and shoot it first as well as between 6.5 shooting. Get in trigger time and practice. I often have two or more rifles going on the range if possible.

Two, don't waste your time with the Sig ammo if your rifle doesn't like it. You may shoot it one more session just to verify but if the second time is no better then just move on.

 

[samcleod]

As Joefrazell mentioned you should strongly consider the Hornady Precision Hunter 143g ELDX ammo. I have a Weatherby Backcountry and a Daniel Defense AR10 in 6.5 CM and the Hornady factory ammo shoot great in both guns out to 500 yards. I have been able to repeatedly shoot .75MOA or better with both guns at the range. I have shot Barnes(127g) and Nosler(120g) you mention in both guns. Though they shoot well they do not have the impact on steel at the longer distances that the 143g has. The 143g shows much more impressive impact on 10" steel than the smaller bullets. I hunt with the 143g and they easily kill whitetail to 400 yards and most run less than 20 yards. The 143g is not hard to find if you are willing to pay above $50/box, but if you watch the ammo search engines regularly you can find it cheaper. I just purchased some at $37 and $40/box last week. The other ammo I like and shoots as well as the Hornady is the Winchester 142g Accubond, but it is very hard to find and when I do it is usually over $55/box. For target shooting the lower weight bullets are fine, but for hunting I would suggest bullets 140g or higher. PS: I have no experience with the Sig ammo you mentioned.

 

[skipglo]

Hornady Hunter x ( however many before me...+ 1). I have personally never experienced a more accurate load out of a retail box...in any caliber!

 

[MoreSalsa]

As Joefrazell mentioned you should strongly consider the Hornady Precision Hunter 143g ELDX ammo. I have a Weatherby Backcountry and a Daniel Defense AR10 in 6.5 CM and the Hornady factory ammo shoot great in both guns out to 500 yards. I have been able to repeatedly shoot .75MOA or better with both guns at the range. I have shot Barnes(127g) and Nosler(120g) you mention in both guns. Though they shoot well they do not have the impact on steel at the longer distances that the 143g has. The 143g shows much more impressive impact on 10" steel than the smaller bullets. I hunt with the 143g and they easily kill whitetail to 400 yards and most run less than 20 yards. The 143g is not hard to find if you are willing to pay above $50/box, but if you watch the ammo search engines regularly you can find it cheaper. I just purchased some at $37 and $40/box last week. The other ammo I like and shoots as well as the Hornady is the Winchester 142g Accubond, but it is very hard to find and when I do it is usually over $55/box. For target shooting the lower weight bullets are fine, but for hunting I would suggest bullets 140g or higher. PS: I have no experience with the Sig ammo you mentioned.

Thanks. I actually will be trying some of the Winchester ammo with the Accubond Long Range 140-ish grains (I think that's what you're talking about), but that is really just an experiment to see what I might be able to use if I'm hunting in an area that allows lead bullets. I would also like to try the Precision Hunter ELD-Xs at some point. But my next two trips will be in lead-free only areas, so that limits me to lighter, lead-free bullets.

 

[MoreSalsa]

I note two things.

One, take your .22LR along and shoot it first as well as between 6.5 shooting. Get in trigger time and practice. I often have two or more rifles going on the range if possible.

Two, don't waste your time with the Sig ammo if your rifle doesn't like it. You may shoot it one more session just to verify but if the second time is no better then just move on.

Good idea. Probably helps prevent developing a flinch too. The 6.5 creedmoor doesn't kick very much but I'll say I expected it to recoil less. It's a pretty light rig though at about 7.5 lbs. with scope. If it was my traditional 30-06 I think it would have been a different story...

 

[nealm66]

If it's threaded you can use a tuner to tighten groups with the bullet you want to use. You can even use a cheap limbsaver harmonic dampener if it's just for hunting and you don't care what it looks like but the tuners are easier to adjust. As long as it's good quality factory ammunition. There's a few brands that are just not built consistent. Probably won't be able to tune as good as a handload but definitely should be 4-500 yard capable