What about .270 Winchester?

[john k]

I love my 270's, have three 700's and one Ruger 77 SS Mark II Skeleton stock.

For those that may have a shot out 270, looking for an EASY upgrade, the Std 280 Remington is the EASY button.

I will point this out, the 280 Remington IS a better mouse trap in that the CUP pressure it runs is less than the 270 bore, which allows some incredible velocity. The 280 Rem with the 160-168g bullets with IMR 7828, fed 210 will be all over 2900-2930 fps with EXTREME accuracy with bullets of very high BC on 24" barrels. With the 180g ELD-M, you are at 2700 fps with a BC of .798. This is no Joke!

Reloading manuals DUMB DOWN the 280 Remington due to the pumps and semi autos on the market. IN the Nosler manual #4, you will find some interesting "Most Accurate" loads for the 280 that is spot on. If you have never shot a bullet with a BC of .798, some things you just have to see for yourself, lack of wind drift/Drop, hits steel plates like a mack truck.

Some would consider the Rem 280 a wild cat it is so rarely mentioned, but it is one of the most prudent decisions in a cartridge choice you could make when your 270 barrel needs replacing.

.280 was my cartridge of choice for 30+ years and it is greatly under appreciated to day the least. P.O. Ackley got a hold of me little over 5 years ago and am in the .280AI cult. All these new cartridges coming out are great to shoot the longer bullets. For the most part, the .270, 7mag, 30/06, .243, .308, 300WM, and a few others are here to stay even after us old schoolers fade away. IMO, the differences are way down range. I'm for the continual development of cartridges, bullets, etc. Is there really a substantial difference between 7PRC and 7mag other than twist and chambering? Here comes the hate mail but it's great to have fun!

 

[PocaProfessor]

I knew this thread would have some passionate messages .

What bullet weight/style would you recommend for northern whitetail at ranges of 300 yards or less?

Anyone care to send some general loads they prefer?

I shoot 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip /IMR 4350 powder with excellent accuracy and usually dead in tracks performance. I haven't had one to go more than 50 yards in many years. I have been shooting .270 Win for over 45 years now, and I currently have 3 in my safe. I really love my Vanguard in 270, great out to 400 yards (maybe farther, our range limit is 400). I also have many other calibers, and I shoot them at the range just for fun. I depend on my 270 as the go to firearm.

 

[VinceMule]

7 mag = 7 PRC

7 PRC in theory has some benefits:

Shorter powder column which may actually help Accuracy

No belt = more sex appeal, Politically correct, but that is a non issue for me

Shorter cartridge OAL for better magazine constraints with VLD bullets

Negative, brass maybe harder to get in difficult economic times

Negative, 7 PRC is a new kid on the block

 

[VinceMule]

I bought one a couple years ago in anticipation of needing it for my 7RM. On 10x firings on the R-P brass. Haven't used it yet. But I have loaned it out a couple times.

I don't see what you mean about lower pressure and higher velocity

But I do agree about the cartridge.

I'm a .270 and 30 cal guy so the 7mms are a bit redundant for me BUT even Jack O'Connor himself is purported to have reluctantly admitted that the 280 rem was a superior cartridge to his baby, the .270

Take a 140g bullet in the 270 and 280 Rem, load the same powder charge in each. The 280 will run 10,000 less CUP in pressure. Ken Waters talked about this quite a bit.

In a Stock Rem 700 with a 24" barrel in 280 Rem, 160g Partitions, 160g Sierra BTSP, 162g ELD's with IMR 7828 using a Fed 210 Primer in Winchester or Remington brass will find the accuracy node around 2900-2930 fps. The AI verson will do 3000 with a 24" barrel, and some a tad over.

The fact that manufacturers have not made a lot of 280's has been a deal killer along with the anemic loads in manuals.

All of the Browning A bolt and Rem 700's in our family shoot extremely tight groups at 300 yards with 160g Sierra btsp. One ole boy in the last deer club I was in had killed over 150 deer with his Rem 700 in 280 with 139g Hornady flat base with R#19.

Having said all of this, the largest Whitetail I have ever killed was in Alabama, 268 lbs was with a 270 with 130g Nosler ballistic tips, a Stainless Browning A bolt that was so accurate you could shoot pennies at 100 yards.

 

[Calvin45]

Take a 140g bullet in the 270 and 280 Rem, load the same powder charge in each. The 280 will run 10,000 less CUP in pressure. Ken Waters talked about this quite a bit.

In a Stock Rem 700 with a 24" barrel in 280 Rem, 160g Partitions, 160g Sierra BTSP, 162g ELD's with IMR 7828 using a Fed 210 Primer in Winchester or Remington brass will find the accuracy node around 2900-2930 fps. The AI verson will do 3000 with a 24" barrel, and some a tad over.

The fact that manufacturers have not made a lot of 280's has been a deal killer along with the anemic loads in manuals.

All of the Browning A bolt and Rem 700's in our family shoot extremely tight groups at 300 yards with 160g Sierra btsp. One ole boy in the last deer club I was in had killed over 150 deer with his Rem 700 in 280 with 139g Hornady flat base with R#19.

Having said all of this, the largest Whitetail I have ever killed was in Alabama, 268 lbs was with a 270 with 130g Nosler ballistic tips, a Stainless Browning A bolt that was so accurate you could shoot pennies at 100 yards.

If an equal powder charge and bullet weight in two different cartridges out of equal barrel lengths yield two vastly different chamber pressures, the high pressure cartridge will be the more powerful of the two.

 

[asd9055]

If an equal powder charge and bullet weight in two different cartridges out of equal barrel lengths yield two vastly different chamber pressures, the high pressure cartridge will be the more powerful of the two.

Correct, but to get higher pressure out of same charge you'd have to have smaller actual case capacity.

 

[VinceMule]

Ken Waters put the time and research in with the 280 Rem, research Ken Water's Pet Loads manual.

Ever seen a 270 Win with a 24" barrel shoot 160g bullets at 2900? 2900 fps with 160's is the accuracy node with the Rem 280's! I am speaking from hands-on experience, not theory.

Of course, I am not familiar with a fast twist 270 Winchester shooting the heavy berger bullets, which is surely worth a little research for a re-barrel.

 

[Hand Skills]

If an equal powder charge and bullet weight in two different cartridges out of equal barrel lengths yield two vastly different chamber pressures, the high pressure cartridge will be the more powerful of the two.

Not necessarily.

Think expansion ratio. If both barrels are 24", the .284 barrel has more VOLUME to work with.

As a result what is achievable with a 140gr bullet in .270win is possible with a 150gr in .280rem.

Load 140's in both, and which do you think will be faster?

 

[asd9055]

If you can find one I'm partial to the M70 Extreme Weather. I modified mine a bit with a McMillan Edge fill stock. I'd really like to find a SS Classic Featherweight, but I'd probably settle for a blued and walnut rifle.

I like a good 130 grain bullet for killing deer, and they work on elk in a pinch.

I am partial to the BOSS so I have a M70 Classic Stainless synthetic Boss.

 

[Calvin45]

Not necessarily.

Think expansion ratio. If both barrels are 24", the .284 barrel has more VOLUME to work with.

As a result what is achievable with a 140gr bullet in .270win is possible with a 150gr in .280rem.

Load 140's in both, and which do you think will be faster?

I get what your saying and I suppose I'm wrong about this one up to a point. But these two (.270 win and .280 rem) are soooo close to the same bore diameter and case capacity that I'm just having a hard time believing that the 280 would outrun the 270 with equal weights AND lower pressures.

At equal pressures for sure it's a bigger case capacity and, be it ever so slight, a greater bore diameter.

But 10,000 psi lower and greater performance over .007" bullet diameter and an improved shoulder seems a bit much to swallow.

But I do defer to the real experience of others over what makes sense in my head haha. There's lots of things I've had a hard time believing at first….

Makes me wonder though how my 8mm mauser doesn't absolutely thrash the .308 Winchester ballistically even at lower pressure.

.015" bigger bullet and a good bit more case capacity….

Oh wait, IT DOES!!!

 

[Calvin45]

Ken Waters put the time and research in with the 280 Rem, research Ken Water's Pet Loads manual.

Ever seen a 270 Win with a 24" barrel shoot 160g bullets at 2900? 2900 fps with 160's is the accuracy node with the Rem 280's! I am speaking from hands-on experience, not theory.

Of course, I am not familiar with a fast twist 270 Winchester shooting the heavy berger bullets, which is surely worth a little research for a re-barrel.

Having no real experience with the .280, I'll defer to your report on this matter. Just surprised such a small difference in cartridge design would make that much change.

 

[Calvin45]

Ken Waters put the time and research in with the 280 Rem, research Ken Water's Pet Loads manual.

Ever seen a 270 Win with a 24" barrel shoot 160g bullets at 2900? 2900 fps with 160's is the accuracy node with the Rem 280's! I am speaking from hands-on experience, not theory.

Of course, I am not familiar with a fast twist 270 Winchester shooting the heavy berger bullets, which is surely worth a little research for a re-barrel.

Having no real experience with the .280, I'll defer to your report on this matter. Just surprised such a small difference in cartridge design would make that much change.

 

[Calvin45]

Ignore the wierd double post. Phone's being silly

 

[Muddyboots]

The 280AI is completely in another league in comparison to .270. The OP though stated factory ammo and availability is major decision point. Although the .280 and .280AI have more horsepower, availability of factory ammo is slim and none if you are depending on buying it at a store.

OP is not a reloader due to component shortages. So factory ammo availability is deal killer for OP. Plus it will be shot in a factory rifle.

The .270 will do fine job in this scenario.

If selecting a cartridge for a build and not having a .270 for 55+ years, it would be .280AI. One of my friends years ago took a nice ram at 11,000 ft with his .280AI long before it was fashionable. Brass now available so not having fireforming for some a big deal.

Just look at Nosler load data for 140gr for .270, .280 and .280AI. The .280AI wins hands down, not even close.