Was the 6.5 cm really a necessity?

[WildRose]

I've never shot hogs but I'm guessing the fact that people hate them means they are far less concerned about making quick kills/recovering them and 223 ammo is dirt cheap.

Rich, thanks for sharing your testing. I will say I'm impressed with some of those comparisons though it doesn't account for some other concerns like the amount of energy transferred into the animal or the wound channel.

We've hijacked this thread enough. I think we know where everyone stands.

A whole lot more baseless assuming.

 

[TX Badger]

Trying to walk away here but you keep pulling back in.

Fine.

Baseless? If you're talking about pigs it's more of an educated guess. I have a lot of experience with deer and everyone says pigs are tougher so...

If your are referring to energy transfer and wound channels, I'll explain.

-If you use a frangible bullet it's going to blow up. Obvious disaster.
-If you use a more stout bullet that passes through, you limit the wound channel and energy transfer. I grew up in an part of WI that was shotgun only. We made deer drives and shot running deer with less than ideal firearms. This was before most had rifled barrels and better ammo. I got a lot of experience with wounded deer. Many ran a long way with more than one hole all the way through them. There was plenty of penetration. But you may as well have run a javelin through a lot of them. And some of these were decent shots too. I miss the community aspects of this hunting but not the tracking and inefficient kills. Sure, head, spine, heart and they were done fast, but they could make it a long way if you just clipped one lung.

If you can show me something other than anecdotal evidence that any .22 gives adequate margin for error I'm happy to listen. I just don't think that milk jug penetration tells the hole story. Pun intended.

Here's some good reading I agree with.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.22-250.html

 

[WildRose]

Trying to walk away here but you keep pulling back in.

Fine.

Baseless? If you're talking about pigs it's more of an educated guess. I have a lot of experience with deer and everyone says pigs are tougher so...

If your are referring to energy transfer and wound channels, I'll explain.

-If you use a frangible bullet it's going to blow up. Obvious disaster.
-If you use a more stout bullet that passes through, you limit the wound channel and energy transfer. I grew up in an part of WI that was shotgun only. We made deer drives and shot running deer with less than ideal firearms. This was before most had rifled barrels and better ammo. I got a lot of experience with wounded deer. Many ran a long way with more than one hole all the way through them. There was plenty of penetration. But you may as well have run a javelin through a lot of them. And some of these were decent shots too. I miss the community aspects of this hunting but not the tracking and inefficient kills. Sure, head, spine, heart and they were done fast, but they could make it a long way if you just clipped one lung.

If you can show me something other than anecdotal evidence that any .22 gives adequate margin for error I'm happy to listen. I just don't think that milk jug penetration tells the hole story. Pun intended.

Here's some good reading I agree with.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.22-250.html

The fact that several million hogs and deer will be taken with them again this year in Texas is all the evidence necessary.

The difference in a .223 and 6mm is ..236""

The difference between a .223 and a 6.5mm is .41"

Put a good bullet in the right spot and your deer is dead. Put the bullet in the right spot and your hog is dead.

While I don't recommend it for everyone I've even taken hogs over 300lbs with a .204 Ruger and had dozens of young kids kill deer and hogs both with the .204, .223, and .220 swift.

Of course bigger and heavier rounds give you a broader margin of error that goes without saying but with any of them you still have to put it where it belongs or watch them run.

 

[TX Badger]

We're really not that far apart on this discussion. My point is less that it can't be done responsibly if you are really careful and more why would you want to when there are so many more capable options. The only rationale I can think of is that's all someone has. In that case I guess you have to make due. Someone would have to be really recoil sensitive to not be able to manage a .243, 25-06, .260, creedmoor... Why try to operate right on the fringe.

I hear people say it makes sense for kids, but I still remember how excited and nervous I was shooting at my first deer. This exactly the type of hunter that needs that additional margin so that they do not have a bad experience.

 

[WildRose]

We're really not that far apart on this discussion. My point is less that it can't be done responsibly if you are really careful and more why would you want to when there are so many more capable options. The only rationale I can think of is that's all someone has. In that case I guess you have to make due. Someone would have to be really recoil sensitive to not be able to manage a .243, 25-06, .260, creedmoor... Why try to operate right on the fringe.

I hear people say it makes sense for kids, but I still remember how excited and nervous I was shooting at my first deer. This exactly the type of hunter that needs that additional margin so that they do not have a bad experience.

You should have had better instruction and a lot more practice.

I don't suggest anyone should take an irresponsible shot under any circumstances but considering that the overwhelming majority of game is shot at under 100 yards and far closer by novices the .223's and .224's have more than enough gas to get the job done with the right bullet.

Not everyone can afford to buy their kid multiple rifles or justify buying more rifles for a wife that may or may not ever want to pull the trigger again and with the .223 far and way being the most popular caliber for varmints and predators that's what most people will have available for their novice shooters.

Once you've developed adequate skill with them they are more than capable out to 300yds and the swift and 22-250 can easily do the job out to 400 on both deer and hogs as well as antelope.

Over the decades we hunted NM for antelope by far the two most popular rifles in the field were the Swift and 22-250 and I saw a great many people take their goats with a single shot from them.

I shot at least 10 with a 220 Swift over the years and only once did I need a follow up shot on a big buck that didn't realize he was dead quick enough to suit me but he never took a step.

I'm a big believer in "Bring enough gun" and for the uses I specified they are all more than enough gun.

 

[Rich Coyle]

WildRose,

Don't you know ignorant prejudice trumps experience and information every time? I love to use ignorant prejudice. It does not need rational support.