WARNING: NORMA "Whitetail" 6.5 Creedmoor 140gr. SP ammunition- Overpressure!

[Jonoton]

I have 10 boxes of this same lot number I recently purchased through the Norma website sale -
No. 20166492, 0030343-06

Looking for more conclusive testing, now.

 

[Darryle]

I have 3 boxes recently purchased:

Edit: was reading that wrong, 2700ish fps is more reasonable.

3212fps at the muzzle? That is smoking for a 6.5 Creedmoor. I may rethink my earlier comments.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

How would that happen from an over pressure round in a bolt action gun? The bolt is locked in position by the lugs until after you open it. What happens in the chamber is totally separate from any forces exerted on the trigger. Sounds like a manufacturer defect in the trigger, unless I'm misunderstanding your explanation.

No idea, we fired three rounds, it was Norma Match ammo 130s, broken trigger, stung finger, and the primers looked similar to the ops.

It's a defiance deviant tactical. There's no gas ports or anything on the bottom of the action. No idea how gases would get back there to hit his hand.

Maybe correlation does not equal causation. We had a match the next day so we were in panic mode thinking we blew up his gun.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

@cohunt this is what happened. It's on trigger techs website. My buddy got stung on his cheek. I just called him to make sure I wasn't crazy. A reminder always wear eye pro.

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We have gone to great lengths to design the most reliable and dependable triggers on the market and we are constantly striving to improve the safety and performance of all TriggerTech products. However, TriggerTech Triggers are precision mechanical devices and they can be damaged. Here are some...

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It's under pierced primer and there's a picture of exactly what happened to his triggertech. The picture off their website looked exactly like my buddys trigger when we took it off.

Also, not to thread hijack, just stating I've experienced similar issues to the OP. And I do not think it's a good idea to test his ammo out in a bolt gun.

Also, would like to reiterate in no way am I saying Norma ammo is bad. It's great stuff. It's accurate and brass is awesome. With a sample size of two, it's not a Valid conclusion. Just backing up the OP that it can and does happen on occasion.

 

[Jon Bischof]

What does Norma Match 130 ammo have to do with a thread about Norma Whitetail 140 ammo? Just to avoid confusion, maybe a different ammo deserves a different thread.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Moderators:

If there is a more appropriate place to post this, feel free to move it-

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I searched Google for info about this new NORMA branded ammunition after firing the first 5 rounds and seeing the scary looking brass.

Some others have had even worse experiences- The last picture with 8 cases held in a guy's hand is downloaded from Reddit, I'm amazed he kept shooting as long as he did with those pierced and blown out primers.

Last, a pic of rifle and how it shoots with handloads.

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Rifle involved was a 22" barreled APF AR-10 variant in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Here is the email I just sent to NORMA USA:

Hi Selika-

Please find attached the receipt for the two other boxes of the NORMA Whitetail 6.5 Creedmoor 140gr. SP ammunition I had purchased separately from Brownells.

Also attached is a photo of my test target with notes on observed behavior of this ammunition (inconsistent, vertical stringing, pierced primers, high pressure signs on case heads)

See pictures of the recovered brass showing signs of varied and excessive pressures:

Two cases had completely pierced primers, you can see daylight looking through their flash holes. Clearly, this is NOT normal behavior.

All case heads show a round, slightly raised area where brass has flowed into the ejector cutout in bolt face.

I had not previously or since observed this type of case head marking with 4 other makes of commercial ammunition fired in this rifle.

I verified rifle function with two other loads with identical (140gr.) bullet weights which advertise similar velocities to the NORMA 140gr. "Whitetail" after discovering the NORMA ammunition was misbehaving. I confirmed rifle was functioning normally, brass from other makers did not show "flow" into ejector cut & etc.

All of the case heads show extreme flattening of primers, curvature normally seen at edge of primer cup is flattened out. Similarly, other properly functioning ammunition did NOT have this extreme flattening.

The three cases which did NOT pierce primers on firing all show varying levels of "cratering" where primer cup has flowed into area around firing pin. Once again, the other brands tested did NOT crater primers. This issue is NOT due to an oversized firing pin aperture.

The vertical stringing indicates non uniform pressures. Additionally, the brass ejected was dispersed over a much larger "arc" and several feet farther away than has been normal with this rifle, also indicating high pressure AND ap variation in pressures.

The other brands of ammunition tested to verify rifle function did not string vertically to an abnormal extent and their cases ejected with a normal (much smaller) degree of angular dispersion (they all landed neatly in a small area about 4:00 and 10' away).

The rifle is in good condition, it was and still is functioning normally.

Rifle was clean before firing, the chamber and bore were cleaned of all but slight traces of oil, several tight fitting DRY cloth patches were run through bore from chamber end before this test firing. One "fouling shot" was taken at a different target before the 5 shots taken at target which I have included photo of. I could not find/recover that first shot's fired case-

Additionally: Please note that the two boxes of ammunition purchased from Brownells have a different lot # than the three boxes purchased directly from you.

Brownell's purchase lot #:

0030343-02 (two boxes)

NORMA USA purchase lot #:

0030343-04 (three boxes)

I did test 5 rounds of the second purchase (From NORMA, lot # ending in -04) the next day as well. It showed similar overpressue signs and I experienced at least three more cases with pierced primers. I only recovered 4 of these cases.

I've been shooting for 53 years and reloading for over 30 years. I believe the issue here is with the ammunition.

Thanks for your help in returning this.



Regards,


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PLEASE NOTE: The 8 rounds shown in the guy's hand below here are NOT MINE, WERE NOT FIRED IN MY RIFLE. They wrecked somebody else on a Reddit forum's brand new AR. They ARE the same brand/product #, I'm still trying to get his lot # info.

See here:


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Bert: Any reply from Norma yet?

 

[Deleted member 48126]

What does Norma Match 130 ammo have to do with a thread about Norma Whitetail 140 ammo? Just to avoid confusion, maybe a different ammo deserves a different thread.

The fact that it's Norma ammo. And recommendations to try it in a bolt gun to see if it's an AR issue is ill advised.

 

[bert2368]

Bert: Any reply from Norma yet?

I was emailed an RMA and a pre paid mailing label to print out same day I spoke with the NORMA customer service person (Wednesday, 11/3).

I have not mailed the ammunition back yet, I want to measure base to ogive, base to shoulder & take some other information on it.

If I can't find anything obviously whack & the size small firing pin/bolt arrives soon, I'd like to fire at least one more round & check case head/primer appearances.

 

[Darryle]

The BCG is on the way, you should see it before the weekend.

 

[shinbone]

I shot that ammo out of a new Browning X-Bolt Medallion two days ago (11-7-21).

Bolt lift seemed fine. Primers had minimal flow into the firing pin hole, and the shoulders were still round. Accuracy was quite good. But, a few of the cases show brass flow into the ejector hole, so this load appears to be a little too hot for my rifle.

The rifle


The group


The box


The empty cases










The bolt face

 

[dogz]

shinbone---any chance you ran it over your chronograph?

Great looking pup by the way!

 

[shinbone]

shinbone---any chance you ran it over your chronograph?

Great looking pup by the way!

I almost always shoot with my LabRadar because it is so easy to set up. Unfortunately, this time I didn't use it, so no velocity measurements. Dang!

And, thanks about the pup. She is 7 years old, now, and she is one awesome bird dog!

First goose retrieve:

Gretel's 1st goose retrieve, Carlin Res. (11-15-19)

This video hosted by SmugMug; your photos and videos look better here.

randallcherry.smugmug.com

Working on steadiness


And a blue grouse point and retrieve


Sorry for hijacking my own post.

 

[dogz]

that's great!

 

[bert2368]

The BCG is on the way, you should see it before the weekend.

THANKS!

I'll keep an eye out for it-