WARNING - 4955

[Calvin45]

What general velocity should a 75g bullet get from a 243 caliber rifle?

From the somewhat worn 22 inch 10 twist of this savage I had two different powders safely hit (slightly exceed) 3500 fps. And while guaging pressure is always a bit of a guess I will say, it'll show up a heck of a lot faster in this rear locking lever action thay it would in a modern bolt gun with a tight chamber.

 

[Calvin45]

Numerous points of online data would also suggest around 3500

 

[QuietTexan]

You jumped from 45gn to 49gn with nothing in between?

Hodgdon doesn't list load data for the 75gn weight of bullet. 90gn load data maxes out at 47.4gn compressed. It's slow for such a light application. Where did you get the idea to jump nearly 10% in charge weight with nothing in between?

If you're going off the reservation, at least go smartly and shoot all the intervals. You can't say for sure there were no pressure signs between 45gn and 49gn if you didn't shoot them.

 

[Calvin45]

You jumped from 45gn to 49gn with nothing in between?

Hodgdon doesn't list load data for the 75gn weight of bullet. 90gn load data maxes out at 47.4gn compressed. It's slow for such a light application. Where did you get the idea to jump nearly 10% in charge weight with nothing in between?

If you're going off the reservation, at least go smartly and shoot all the intervals. You can't say for sure there were no pressure signs between 45gn and 49gn if you didn't shoot them.

Read my post.

45 was waaaay low

49 was fine
50 was fine
51 was not fine.

There were no pressure signs at 49 or 50. Why would there be signs below 49

Also if a burn rate is actually too slow it means you can't fit enough of it in there to exceed pressure! 7828 would certainly be too slow. The fact that I could easily fit 51 grains in a case with a little room to keep going, blew a primer, and exceeded book velocity for any powder with that bullet weight indicates that it's not too slow burning.

Not trying to be snarky or contentious but again, I'd appreciate it if you gave my original post a re-reading.

 

[Koda_]

There were no pressure signs at 49 or 50. Why would there be signs below 49

The problem Ive observed doing pressure ladders is Ive discovered pressure on the second or third shot at a given charge weight.

You went from 45g to 49g charge weight without pressure signs, thats a huge jump. The question I have with this is why even bother with the 45g charge if your confident its below pressure?
did you do any other charge weights in between 45 and 49?

There were two pressure signs you missed between 49 and 50.
1 was the velocity plateau or spike between 49 and 50 grains of powder (the plateau was clear).
Second was the fact you were running within 50fps of the average max published velocity (pressure) at 49grains of charge weight (3452fps). Then you jumped a full whole grain charge weight.

I get chasing max velocity, but Im still fairly new to reloading so my question is what is the safe charge increase as we reach max published velocities?

 

[stazmania]

Is the staball line the resurrection of enduron? Same or close burn rate and copper fouling claims?

 

[Calvin45]

The problem Ive observed doing 1 shot pressure ladders is Ive discovered pressure on the second or third shot at a given charge weight.

You went from 45g to 49g charge weight without pressure signs, thats a huge jump. The question I have with this is why even bother with the 45g charge if your confident its below pressure?
did you do any other charge weights in between 45 and 49?

There were two pressure signs you missed between 49 and 50.
1 was the velocity plateau or spike between 49 and 50 grains of powder (the plateau was clear).
Second was the fact you were running within 50fps of the average max published velocity (pressure) at 49grains of charge weight (3452fps). Then you jumped a full whole grain charge weight.

I get chasing max velocity, but Im still fairly new to reloading so my question is what is the safe charge increase as we reach max published velocities?

I've honestly always just done 1 grain increments then backed off 2 grains upon hitting pressure signs of any kind.

I feel like there's some valid concern but also some refusal to get the point here and you guys are getting sidetracked a bit.

The point was simply a public service announcement of my finding with this powder in both 243 and 300 win now, with a rapid pressure spike that is more pronounced than any of the other two dozen + powders I have experience with over thousands of rounds of centerfire ammo spread out over 10 different rifle cartridges.

I appreciate the concern. Im not half as knowledgeable or experienced as some guys on here but Im not new to this. This is not an instance of me not knowing what im doing or making a careless mistake. This is me surprised and wanting to give others a heads up because I do in fact have a fair amount of experience and have learned a lot about this myself and from others as much as I can, and I have never experienced this with any other powder, EVER.

I knew 45 was very underpressure and didn't feel like wasting time (I was freezing my fingers pretty good during my testing haha) and components.

I do agree halfway about the velocity plateau. Though as I've already stated I have also seen these kind of plateaus at "nodes" waaaay below max pressure or book velocity. So a plateau does not ALWAYS mean pressure. It can mean a few things.

I bothered with the 45 grain becuae I had no idea what to expect and indeed wanted to assure safety and start at a low place, extrapolating burn rate from a chart and erring in the side of caution. It was indeed very low. But I wasn't just going to start at 50 or something haha, still "bothered" to check the bottom end.

I do agree that only firing one round at a given charge doesn't guarantee anything BUT you shouldn't be showing zero pressure signs with one round and soezing a bolt up with the next at identical charges either. It doesn't tell you everything. It does tell me enough to figure out about where I want to be and then refine the load with smaller adjustments to charge weights and seating depths from that ballpark reference point until I've got a winner that I've proven with multiple groups and verification of functionality and acceptable pressure with multiple rounds fired in a variety of ambient conditions as well. I do have a method. This isn't madness.

Either way… It's still remarkable to go from basically no pressure indicators IN A REAR LOCKING ACTION THAT SHOWS SUCH INDICATORS VERY READILY to a blown primer in one grain. I beleive you do understand that and do understand what I'm saying now. I do appreciate the concern as well.

 

[Calvin45]

Is the staball line the resurrection of enduron? Same or close burn rate and copper fouling claims?

Maybe but for one thing staball is ball powder and enduron is stick powder. But I kind of do think that hodgdon is using these new Winchester branded powders to fill the void the enduron powders left. We shall see…

 

[stazmania]

I personally think you all should be scared of enduron and send it to me for disposal. especially the hd.

 

[ButterBean]

Dang. Good to know. Saw some 6.5 staball at my lgs. Was tempted. But a little voice inside just said "don't" haha. I think it might have been @ButterBean speaking telepathically

And you would be correct

 

[Seabeeken]

Hd is staball, not enduron.
ive worked with enduron a good bit. It does peak quick which is why i work up with it in .2 or .3 increments and never a problem. 4166 and 4451 have always given me low es and good speed

 

[Calvin45]

Hd is staball, not enduron.
ive worked with enduron a good bit. It does peak quick which is why i work up with it in .2 or .3 increments and never a problem. 4166 and 4451 have always given me low es and good speed

no experience with 4166.

Never had an issue with 4451, 7977, 8133 even with my usual 1 grain increments. 4955 REALLY seems like a different animal.

 

[Muddyboots]

I would give you my 6.5StaBal but it was too good of a backyard fire starter.

 

[Seabeeken]

no experience with 4166.

Never had an issue with 4451, 7977, 8133 even with my usual 1 grain increments. 4955 REALLY seems like a different animal.

Ive used 4955 but thats the slowest in the enduron line Ive used, I still never had issues. Like I said, I dont sneak up on pressure in 1 gr increments either. I also found in my testing that in every case best accuracy was found just before pressure. By the time you see bolt swipe, ejector marks, and stiff bolt that you are already over 70,000 psi and likely 75,000+