That's what I expected, but didn't want to assume it to be true. Thanks for relating your experience.
Jason
Walking or light rifle... elk at 600 yards
- Thread starter 4th_point
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
That's what I expected, but didn't want to assume it to be true. Thanks for relating your experience.
Jason
The 338 win mag is a choice i made over 15 years and have had no regets
The 338 win mag at 500 yards has a 2000 flbs of energy with a 225 accubond
with 2708 fps on the barrel and 2005 fps at 500yards. the Rifle is a standard ruger
24" barrel wood stock iron sights and a scope.....Has put pronghorn, deer and elk
on the table.
As for all else 300 win or a 06 which will kill all needed animals in North America...
The 338 win mag at 500 yards has a 2000 flbs of energy with a 225 accubond
with 2708 fps on the barrel and 2005 fps at 500yards. the Rifle is a standard ruger
24" barrel wood stock iron sights and a scope.....Has put pronghorn, deer and elk
on the table.
As for all else 300 win or a 06 which will kill all needed animals in North America...
hammertyme
Well-Known Member
Other than printing a drop chart I know nothing about ballistics programs. For the most part I am computer illiterate. SO what I say is from experience only.
You have been given a wealth of great advice. I have taken deer and elk to 650 yards with 6mm Remingtons (deer) to 338 Win Mags. My old favorite all time caliber is the 300 Win Mag with 180 grain partitions. Now that bullet has been replaced with the Accubond. For elk and above, there is a noticable difference in visual response when hitting a large animal with a 338 caliber bullet over the other smaller calibers. Do not misunderstand, to 300 Win Mag,300 RUM do the job every time without a hitch.
As previously stated, one cannot always find an ideal place to shoot from. SO scope eye is going to happen with 4" eye relief Leupold scopes and soft spongy recoil pads. Personally it takes only a moment to put on hearing protection. Which for me makes having a brake on my 6-8 pounds 338's a very pleasant experience.
Neal
You have been given a wealth of great advice. I have taken deer and elk to 650 yards with 6mm Remingtons (deer) to 338 Win Mags. My old favorite all time caliber is the 300 Win Mag with 180 grain partitions. Now that bullet has been replaced with the Accubond. For elk and above, there is a noticable difference in visual response when hitting a large animal with a 338 caliber bullet over the other smaller calibers. Do not misunderstand, to 300 Win Mag,300 RUM do the job every time without a hitch.
As previously stated, one cannot always find an ideal place to shoot from. SO scope eye is going to happen with 4" eye relief Leupold scopes and soft spongy recoil pads. Personally it takes only a moment to put on hearing protection. Which for me makes having a brake on my 6-8 pounds 338's a very pleasant experience.
Neal
4th point,
I also used the JBM program to crunch the drift for the 200 gr accubond. I must point out that your figures are very different from mine. I have no idea what you used for zero, elevation, temp etc. All I can say is that you are WAY off.
I will get more specific so perhaps you can find your error in your figures.
I used .588 as the BC, 4000 ft elevation with CORRECTED pressure of 25.84"
temperature 50 degrees F, humidity 30%,0 mph 90 degree crosswind, scope height 1.5", Zero 200 yards.
600 yds drop is 55.7" and drift is 15.1"
------------------------
588 is Nosler's BC number. Bryan Litz has a lower number and recommends the G7 BC which is
.273
Crunching all the same inputs with corrected BC yields:
drop of 56.8" and drift of 16.4"
--------
I am curious as to your input data
I also used the JBM program to crunch the drift for the 200 gr accubond. I must point out that your figures are very different from mine. I have no idea what you used for zero, elevation, temp etc. All I can say is that you are WAY off.
I will get more specific so perhaps you can find your error in your figures.
I used .588 as the BC, 4000 ft elevation with CORRECTED pressure of 25.84"
temperature 50 degrees F, humidity 30%,0 mph 90 degree crosswind, scope height 1.5", Zero 200 yards.
600 yds drop is 55.7" and drift is 15.1"
------------------------
588 is Nosler's BC number. Bryan Litz has a lower number and recommends the G7 BC which is
.273
Crunching all the same inputs with corrected BC yields:
drop of 56.8" and drift of 16.4"
--------
I am curious as to your input data
Last edited:
3006savage
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 284
I would go 300WSM and start out trying the new 168 grain E-tip. It could easily be lauched at 3100 FPS and is still travelling at 2050+ FPS and carrys over 1550 ft/lbs KE at your max range of 600 yards. That assumes 1,000 ft elevation and most elk hunts are 5,000 ft or higher so your downrange numbers will probably be better.
The min impact velocity is 1800 fps so you would still be over 250 fps above that value and the bullet would surely penetrate with 95% weight retention.(Probably better than the 180s) It has a .503 BC which runs right with most of the 180 grain premium hunting bullets also.
Kimber Montana would fit the bill for a lightweight carrying rifle and the savage weather warrior are right in there also.
The min impact velocity is 1800 fps so you would still be over 250 fps above that value and the bullet would surely penetrate with 95% weight retention.(Probably better than the 180s) It has a .503 BC which runs right with most of the 180 grain premium hunting bullets also.
Kimber Montana would fit the bill for a lightweight carrying rifle and the savage weather warrior are right in there also.
Good points guys.
We've got elk at sea level (literally) to the highest mountains in the state, and everywhere in between. I would guess that most of my elk hunting was/is/will-be at 500 to 4000 ft. Probably in the 1000-3000 ft range 50% of the time.
In post #12 I didn't list the parameters used in JBM other than sea level and 59 degrees. I should have stated that I used the default settings to compare the 300 vs 338. One of the most important settings is the zero... 100 yards is default for JBM and what I have been using lately since I now dial drop and drift.
When I run numbers for one of my actual rifles or loads I am much more specific, but since I just wanted to compare the two cartridges for relative differences I just used the default settings. I was lazy, but the numbers are still valid to me since each was calculated for the exact same conditions. I just wanted to know the difference.
We've got elk at sea level (literally) to the highest mountains in the state, and everywhere in between. I would guess that most of my elk hunting was/is/will-be at 500 to 4000 ft. Probably in the 1000-3000 ft range 50% of the time.
In post #12 I didn't list the parameters used in JBM other than sea level and 59 degrees. I should have stated that I used the default settings to compare the 300 vs 338. One of the most important settings is the zero... 100 yards is default for JBM and what I have been using lately since I now dial drop and drift.
When I run numbers for one of my actual rifles or loads I am much more specific, but since I just wanted to compare the two cartridges for relative differences I just used the default settings. I was lazy, but the numbers are still valid to me since each was calculated for the exact same conditions. I just wanted to know the difference.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
If you can get 100 fps more out of the 168 E-Tip, you'll get about 25 yds more down range velocity but the 180 will still hold a slight edge in momentum and energy.
Of the two, I would go with the 180 out of the 300 WSM if they shot the same. If the 168 shot better, I would go with it. Not a big diff between the two but with elk, every little bit helps.
Of the two, I would go with the 180 out of the 300 WSM if they shot the same. If the 168 shot better, I would go with it. Not a big diff between the two but with elk, every little bit helps.
linksmechanic
Well-Known Member
300 win mag. I don't even own one anymore but: Better brass then the wsm, berger 210 or 240 smk.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Curious what 300 WM brass is better than Norma WSM brass? Does Lapua make 300 WM brass?
I've never tried 240 SMK's out of my 300 WSM but it will shoot 210 Bergers @ 2935 in front of RL17. I personally dont think the 240 is the best bullet for either the WM or WSM, but that's just me.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Well Jason are you thoroughly confused yet ?
There is a lot of good advice to wade through and If you can just start back with your post
and apply all of the advice so that you will end up with exactly what you wanted you should
end up with a great rifle for your needs.
I always try to evaluate all possibilities and then make a checklist for the person wanting
the custom rifle and let them check off all of the pros and cons to come to a final decision.
It looks something this;
Type of animal =
max distance to be hunted=
(These two things will normally help decide what caliber and bullet weight.)
Type of terrain and distance from transportation to hunting (How much walking)
This will give one a ideal weight and overall length for the rifle.
How much recoil you can tolerate is very important and the bigger the cartridge/bullet
combination the more recoil so based on recoil the decision to install a muzzle break
becomes important and with the break comes the necessity for hearing protection.
Also another important factor is whether you reload or want to buy factory ammo.
Next is wild cats (Non factory chamberings) they can produce extra benefits but
there are issues with them that must be addressed.
I hope this helps you come to a best all round rifle for your purpose and use.
J E CUSTOM
300 WSM or 325 WSM in short action
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/no-click-lr-carry-gun-48155/
click on pics to enlarge
Here is my exact same thing.
Manners and others make 1 lb or so stocks to make it come in easily under 8 lbs with high quality 1" scope (Zeiss, Swaro and Kahles).
BH
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/no-click-lr-carry-gun-48155/
click on pics to enlarge
Here is my exact same thing.
Manners and others make 1 lb or so stocks to make it come in easily under 8 lbs with high quality 1" scope (Zeiss, Swaro and Kahles).
BH
Last edited:
Alan Griffith
Well-Known Member
Jason,
A few thoughts. To keep the rifle light and accurate, you need to take a few things into consideration.
1. What is your recoil tolerance? Heavier and faster bullets are going to thump you more on your end.
2. Going to a lighter rifle yet keeping the accuracy up there will dictate that your going to need some luck and lots of reloading knowledge to find a load that will meet your accuracy needs and/or you'll need to put some $ into the rig to "make" it accurate.
So, on #1. Any 338 will work but is going to thump you more. A 180 30 cal will easily suffice to your 600 yd limit and yet, won't thump you as hard. Goodgrouper has proven that many times and at longer ranges.
On #2, put the extra $ into a good barrel, action job, trigger to "make" it more accurate. It does not have to be a $3-4k rifle to meet your accuracy needs. $300 for a barrel, $300 for the barrrel work and about $200-300 more to true it all up and maybe $100 for a decent trigger or trigger job.
My own big game LR rig is a Rem 700 LA in 30-06AI, 26" SS Lilja turned to an absolute toothpick at the .552" muzzle, trigger tuned to 2 lbs. I've tried numerous scopes. My fav was my former Mk 4 4.5-14x50 w/ TMR but it recently got sold to fund my new NF 5.5-22x50 w/ NP-R1 reticle. With the Mk 4 the weight was only 7.5 lbs and yet I could shoot 1/2 MOA groups out to 800+ yds. I've got proof.
See, look at that barrel just underneath the Obj lens; drastic contour down to a toothpick.
This is a 4.25" group @ 818 yds. Same rifle but IOR scope which fell apart about 20 rounds later. 180 BT doing about 3000 in a 7.5 lb rifle = thump! But, I'm tough!
A few thoughts. To keep the rifle light and accurate, you need to take a few things into consideration.
1. What is your recoil tolerance? Heavier and faster bullets are going to thump you more on your end.
2. Going to a lighter rifle yet keeping the accuracy up there will dictate that your going to need some luck and lots of reloading knowledge to find a load that will meet your accuracy needs and/or you'll need to put some $ into the rig to "make" it accurate.
So, on #1. Any 338 will work but is going to thump you more. A 180 30 cal will easily suffice to your 600 yd limit and yet, won't thump you as hard. Goodgrouper has proven that many times and at longer ranges.
On #2, put the extra $ into a good barrel, action job, trigger to "make" it more accurate. It does not have to be a $3-4k rifle to meet your accuracy needs. $300 for a barrel, $300 for the barrrel work and about $200-300 more to true it all up and maybe $100 for a decent trigger or trigger job.
My own big game LR rig is a Rem 700 LA in 30-06AI, 26" SS Lilja turned to an absolute toothpick at the .552" muzzle, trigger tuned to 2 lbs. I've tried numerous scopes. My fav was my former Mk 4 4.5-14x50 w/ TMR but it recently got sold to fund my new NF 5.5-22x50 w/ NP-R1 reticle. With the Mk 4 the weight was only 7.5 lbs and yet I could shoot 1/2 MOA groups out to 800+ yds. I've got proof.
See, look at that barrel just underneath the Obj lens; drastic contour down to a toothpick.
This is a 4.25" group @ 818 yds. Same rifle but IOR scope which fell apart about 20 rounds later. 180 BT doing about 3000 in a 7.5 lb rifle = thump! But, I'm tough!
