Vortex Viper PST, the scope that never was?

[joseph]

i'm thinkin Big "V" has one satisfied customer!

You got that right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gun)

joseph

 

[scotsgun]

At the risk of upsetting some, i really don't know what the hype is about these scopes. A mate recently bought one from Midway UK who were offering a deal. He bought it due to the specs, magnification range and the hype on a few of the shooting forums.

He brought it over and we tested it against some other comparable scopes where it rated OK at best. Essentially we mounted an average sized roe deer target, made from brown corrugated cardboard on a post 100yds away, under a tree. We lined up the scopes below on a table and continually checked the scope picture until it was no longer possible to distinguish a 'shootable target.'

Hawke Frontier 6-16x42
Falcon Menace 10x42
Votex Viper 6.5-20x50
Zeiss Duralyt (UK version of conquest) 3-12x50
Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40
Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x50
Schmidt & Bender (8x56 Hungarian)
Swarovski Habicht 3-10x50

The time at which the target was no longer shootable was logged for each scope in minutes after dusk:

Hawke Frontier 6-16x42 +17mins
Falcon Menace 10x42 +21mins
Votex Viper 6.5-20x50 +23mins
Zeiss Duralyt (UK version of conquest) 3-12x50 +37mins
Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40 +28mins
Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x50 +33mins
Schmidt & Bender (8x56 Hungarian) +45mins
Swarovski Habicht 3-10x50 +43

OK, so i freely admit that the amount of cloud cover, shadow, etc will all effect the results to a degree but when i'm stalking deer at dawn & dusk, the viper is not the scope i'd wish on my rifle.

 

[Airgunner7]

To be fair , the PST has different glass ? Or is it the same with different turrets, retical?

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

The PST's do have different glass, but to the previous post when you were doing these tests did you have all of the scopes on max magnification?




Scott

 

[scotsgun]

Scott_at_Vortex,

We thought about that when doing the test and concluded that it would be unfair to the less expensive variables. OK, so we expected the Swaro and the SB to clear the tables - we hadn't forgotten just how much more expensive they are.

Essentially we set the variables to mag 8, deciding it was the fairest setting (object lenses being considered). This left the only 'fly in the ointment' being the Falcon menace which is a set power at 10.

A last comment about costs. The Vortex Viper PST Scope with 30mm Tube 4-16x 50mm Side Focus Illuminated EBR-1 Reticle Matte is currently being sold in the UK, by Midway UK for £785 sterling ($1251 US dollars). That puts it in the neighbourhood of some very stiff competition:

Docter Optics Classic Illuminated 3-12x56 IR Rifle Scope - £820
Zeiss Classic Diatal 8x56 T* IR Rifle Scope - £840
Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 Rifle Scope - £699
Zeiss Classic Diavari 3-12x56 T* Rifle Scope - £840
Schmidt and Bender Classic Fixed Power (Hungarian) 8x56 30mm Rifle Scope - £600
Schmidt and Bender Classic Fixed Power (Hungarian) 8x56 30mm Rifle Scope - £830
Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 Rifle Scope - £890
Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x50 IR Long Range Rifle Scope - £790
Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x50 Long Range Rifle Scope - £750
Leupold VX-3 6.5-20x50 Long Range Rifle Scope - £820
Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x40 Long Range Rifle Scope - £580
MEOPTA R1r 3-12X56 RD RET 4K - £840.00

I could go on and list examples from kahles, etc but ultimately i fear odd in Europe are stacked against the Vortex scopes finacially. They are just too over-priced. Financially and optically, if i was searching for a quality variable scope for a hunting rifles then i would choose a Doctor, Meopta, Pentax, Kahles or even a Leupold. Same price as the Vortex but proven optical quality.

 

[elkstalker300]

I am kinda confused, guess I dont know how oversea markets work compared to the us dollar but I dont see how a scope selling here for hundreds less could cost more over there.

 

[davewilson]

SWFA is selling that scope for 700. FFP is 850.

 

[scotsgun]

Elkstalker,

That makes two of us!

There is such a mark-up on certain US kit that you'd think the manufacturers would have a word with the retailers. There are some US companies which have smart marketing depts. like Mossberg and Marlin who realise that whilst the UK is a small market, the European market is huge. Result - ask a UK or European shooter which lever action he owns or wishes to own and practically all will state Marlin.

Now consider this scope. Who the hell is going to purchase it when you could have a Docter Optics Classic Illuminated 3-12x56 IR Rifle Scope for only £30 more, Kahles Helia C 3-12x56 for £65 more or even a Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 Rifle Scope for £85 less !

 

[jhlobik]

So, based on your information, it is reasonable to assume that the stock of scopes available now from SWFA or other vendors, are with the old non-improved turrets ??? If so, it will probably be a while before they spend that stock and refill it with the new improved turret scopes, which will be sometime this fall according to you. Right ? Or am I missing something here ?

Guys,

Allow me to say a quick "Hi" & introduce myself since I'm frequently checking out this great website. No surprise, I work at Vortex and am primarily involved in product development and sales.

As many of you know, we did ship a small initial batch of PSTs earlier this summer under "considerable' customer demand ! Listening to the feedback we received after this shipment, we decided to improve the turret design just a bit with improved feel & resistance. The original turrets were really quite good and 90% of buyers would probably have been perfectly happy with them, but we knew that people were expecting a lot of these scopes and we just didn't want to disappoint anybody. So we halted deliveries & re-tooled the turret design which has delayed shipments until sometime later this fall (no, I do not have an exact date). Believe me, we're pushing as hard as we can to get them out as soon as humanly possible !

Paul @ Vortex

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

So, based on your information, it is reasonable to assume that the stock of scopes available now from SWFA or other vendors, are with the old non-improved turrets ??? If so, it will probably be a while before they spend that stock and refill it with the new improved turret scopes, which will be sometime this fall according to you. Right ? Or am I missing something here ?

This is not the case. There are absolutely no dealers out there that have any PST's in stock(new or old). The initial batch that we sent out (as Paul said) was extremely small and was probably in the dealers hands for less than a day before they were sent out to fill some backorders. The people that did manage to get there hands on one of these initial scopes have either,by our request,contacted us or have been contacted by us and informed that we will update their scopes with the new turret housing when we have them ready.

The whole reason we are re-doing the turrets is because we and some of our customers were not 100% satisfied with the turrets and we certainly would not sell a product that we do not feel is the best we can do with in its price structure. We have to be this way otherwise with our "if you are not happy we are not happy" fully transferable lifetime warranty we wouldnt be in business very long.


Hope that clears things up a bit.




Scott

 

[VTXPaul]

jhlobik,

There are no PSTs on dealer shelves right now. Not many were shipped & all were sold within days.

Some dealers are accepting orders, but don't have inventory yet.

Paul @ Vortex

 

[davewilson]

Scott/Paul, was told these have one erector spring made out of spring steel. can i assume a stronger spring is part of the changes since louder/more audible clicks is the goal of the redesign?

 

[jhlobik]

I was looking at Vortex PST416S1A. It shows available with at least 2 vendors at SWFA & Optics Planet as of 10/13/2010.

jhlobik,

There are no PSTs on dealer shelves right now. Not many were shipped & all were sold within days.

Some dealers are accepting orders, but don't have inventory yet.

Paul @ Vortex

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

Scott/Paul, was told these have one erector spring made out of spring steel. can i assume a stronger spring is part of the changes since louder/more audible clicks is the goal of the redesign?

There are no issues with the erector spring and the turrets already had audible defined clicks. What we are improving is the overall resistance of the turrets so they do not get accidentally changed in the field, but in doing this we are using a heavier clicker spring as well as a total redesign on the turret housing.





Scott