Virgin brass vs. once fired.

[Phil Rizzo]

Does hydro forming mean your shoot less times to get fully fire formed?

 

[FEENIX]

Didn't watch it yet. How close to final dimensions does it get you?

You decide ...

L-R (.30 LARA)
1. 8MM Remington virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming die
3. After running through the sizing die
4. Fire formed off the chamber

L-R (.338 Thor)
1. Lapua .338 Norma Magnum virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming and sizing dies
3. After fire forming off the chamber.

Does hydro forming mean your shoot less times to get fully fire formed?

It is simply another way to form a brass to a desired state, just like the COW method. However, a member here went straight to load development with excellent results.

 

[Rosebud]

That is cool, do you have to shoot it to get the final case size? Or go to load development?

 

[Window]

You decide ...
View attachment 487251
L-R (.30 LARA)
1. 8MM Remington virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming die
3. After running through the sizing die
4. Fire formed off the chamber

View attachment 487253L-R (.338 Thor)
1. Lapua .338 Norma Magnum virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming and sizing dies
3. After fire forming off the chamber.


It is simply another way to form a brass to a desired state, just like the COW method. However, a member here went straight to load development with excellent results.

Impressive results. Do you see any downside with the short necks?

 

[FEENIX]

That is cool, do you have to shoot it to get the final case size? Or go to load development?

As previously noted, an LRH member has gone directly to load development, but I prefer mine to be fire formed off the chamber.

Impressive results. Do you see any downside with the short necks?

No, Sir!

Speaking of short necks, check this out ...

 

[waspocrew]

You can sometimes get very accurate loads when you are fireforming new brass.
If you are fortunate enough to find a good load during workup, nothing wrong with loading the rest of your brass with that load and using it for hunting.
Just understand that once you've shot those up, you'll have to re-work your load for the once fired brass. Not usually hard. Just drop back about 1.5 grs and go up again till you get good velocity and grouping with the once fired.

That's where I'm at going into hunting season... I have about 60 virgin ADG 338 RUM to work with. I'm thinking I'll just pick up another box of 50 and just hunt with virgin brass, then re-work the load on the once fired brass.

 

[Tiny Tim]

You decide ...
View attachment 487251
L-R (.30 LARA)
1. 8MM Remington virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming die
3. After running through the sizing die
4. Fire formed off the chamber

View attachment 487253L-R (.338 Thor)
1. Lapua .338 Norma Magnum virgin brass
2. After running through hydraulic forming and sizing dies
3. After fire forming off the chamber.


It is simply another way to form a brass to a desired state, just like the COW method. However, a member here went straight to load development with excellent results.

Impressive to say the least sir! I agree with you, I'd feel better doing load development on once fired, but it would/ could be a gamechanger for wildcatting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[FEENIX]

Impressive to say the least sir! I agree with you, I'd feel better doing load development on once fired, but it would/ could be a gamechanger for wildcatting. Thanks foe sharing.

Yes, Sir! You're welcome. I have 4 wildcats/non-SAAMI but only have 2 with hydraulic forming dies. That is what this forum is all about, sharing information and helping each other out.

 

[sw282]

l hit the jackpot awhile back when l bought 200 new Lapua cases in 222 Rem. l am using about 30 cases. My groups appear to be shrinking with each reload. The 30 have been fired 4 times now, trimming after each use.

 

[Allen Kitts]

I'm a little different from others here! On ammo I'm only hunting with I do load development with whatever bullet I intend to use, using the Virgin brass. Then load up the remaining seventy five or eighty rounds and hunt with it for the next couple of years. When I'm down to about twenty or so then I neck shoulder bump, then reload knowing I'll have to drop the charge a touch and work up. Components are far to expensive to just shoot up hundreds of hammer bullets and primers to get second or third firings as some reccomend. When the Virgin brass will shoot great. I tell this the people I load for, when you have shot these up come back, we will work up another load for the once fired. Or maybe my pockets just aren't as deep as others. If it was PRC shooting I'd go a different route.

Couldn't agree more Rosebud. I usually buy 200-300 new pieces, weight sort them and start loading and collecting data. I have had not had a problem getting virgin brass to shoot well or consistent. I love to shoot but probably not to the extent (quantity) most on here do. I load of fifty to one hundred and use those until they run out, then load up some more. I do the same for several of my friends and have never had any complaints about the way the virgin loaded ammo shot. Once my new brass is all used up then I start over with the once fired brass. Been doing this for about forty years and it works fine for me. If I was shooting for a living it might be a different story but for the average joe blow who mostly hunts and occasionally shoots, when the time allows, waiting until everything is once fired to start your process is painstakingly slow and very expensive. JMO fells's.

 

[Rosebud]

Couldn't agree more Rosebud. I usually buy 200-300 new pieces, weight sort them and start loading and collecting data. I have had not had a problem getting virgin brass to shoot well or consistent. I love to shoot but probably not to the extent (quantity) most on here do. I load of fifty to one hundred and use those until they run out, then load up some more. I do the same for several of my friends and have never had any complaints about the way the virgin loaded ammo shot. Once my new brass is all used up then I start over with the once fired brass. Been doing this for about forty years and it works fine for me. If I was shooting for a living it might be a different story but for the average joe blow who mostly hunts and occasionally shoots, when the time allows, waiting until everything is once fired to start your process is painstakingly slow and very expensive. JMO fells's.

Great minds think alike !

 

[Hugnot]

I buy mostly 1x fired brass. The 1st step is to de-prime. After that I anneal with circular tip propane torch, bases in 1/2 inch water, then F/L size enough to get a slight crush fit, then neck turning to get proper neck/chamber clearance, then finally trim.

I try to buy 250-500 cases of same make for heavy volume rodent rifles. Like a big pile of .223 to make .20P. I don't bother to weigh brass but sample random F/L sized cases for capacity using ball powder charges that fill trmmed cases to mouth. I then weigh case filling charges & play with stats. Most often ranges are less than .1 grain.

With new brass I skip the annealing.

I plan to make 100, .280 Rem cases from .270 Win soon. This will involve necking up to .30, creating a false shoulder for a nice crush fit with a .280 Rem F/L die , COW fireforming, then F/L .280 sizing, neck turning then trimming. .280 Rem brass has gone extinct.

I have noticed xtreme speads have gone down after fire formng in friendly home chamber.

Should you want a good size pile of .280 Rem brass going thru the work to make it is needed.

I COW FF using large pistol primers.

 

[Laguna Freak]

Does that mean that fire forming is only fire forming, or is there useful information to be gleaned from that process?
I have a couple of ladders put together with vigin ADG brass and Hammers. Should I pull the bullets and use Hornadys for the first firing?

IME, it depends on the gun and how well the brass fits your chamber. If all of the brass is say not more than 5 to 7 thou BtS shorter than your chamber, you can get some useful data while fire forming. If the Brass BtS is all over the place, I load down a couple grains from a known good load and shoot the cheapest bullets I can find to fire form. Of course it all depends on your standards. Some folks are satisfied with moa or sub-moa. I like sub half-moa at 300 yds and less. I don't always get it but that's my goal.

 

[MtPockets]

IME, it depends on the gun and how well the brass fits your chamber. If all of the brass is say not more than 5 to 7 thou BtS shorter than your chamber, you can get some useful data while fire forming. If the Brass BtS is all over the place, I load down a couple grains from a known good load and shoot the cheapest bullets I can find to fire form. Of course it all depends on your standards. Some folks are satisfied with moa or sub-moa. I like sub half-moa at 300 yds and less. I don't always get it but that's my goal.

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm trying to learn.
What is BtS?