Vertical stringing

[Montana'eer]

Are you allowing your barrel to cool or are you pushing it shot after shot. It's a large caliber that creates lots of heat.

That's what I'm thinking. I had a .338WM that had vertical stringing with factory ammo (cold bore dead on- subsequent shots in a straight up and down line). However it was fine during barrel break in and sighting in.

So what I did- and it may be wrong but I tried it- I cleaned my barrel really well, shot and then cleaned again, cold bore barrel, then cleaned it AGAIN so it was cold- did that 5x and no stringing. It wasn't the scope, not the shooter, and not the rounds. That barrel wanted to be COLD.

But I sold that shoulder buster, lol.

 

[waveslayer]

Has anyone else shot the rifle to confirm the stringing, usually vertical stringing is shooter error. Check scope rings and bases.

How's your parallax?

 

[25WSM]

If everyone reads the original post from the op you will clearly see he can shoot. Probably nothing wrong with the gun either. The op stated that it shoots .25 moa most of the time. Most people never shoot .25 moa in there life. There obviously isn't an issue with gun or shooter or the load most likely. It's probably a tolerance in the loading components causing the flier. Trim length can easily cause this also. Some brass stretch more than others. If a few of them stretched to the point they touch at the mouth those will over pressure and be out of the group. A carbon ring in the chamber could cause this with brass that are still in spec. Seems like the accuracy is there already just need to check consistency of your components.
Shep

 

[MAD10]

When you're shooting your groups are they in rapid succession with one another w/out breaking position or do you get up off the rifle after each shot to let the barrel cool?
Reason I ask is that I just finished load development w/ a .300 Win Mag also using ADG brass, Federal 215's, Berger 210's and RL26. Seems when I stay on the rifle after each shot without breaking position (prone) the load I settled on (73.1gr) prints .5 moa consistently. BUT if I get up after each shot, allow a few minutes to pass and and set up all over again I tend to throw one high or low sometimes thus ruining the group.

Deputy 819 I am thinking along the same as you....I find I shoot my best groups by staying behind my rig also. For example I will shoot a 1 5/8" 600 yard group then get up chat a bit with someone or go let my dog take a quick sprint then jump behind my rig and pull a 3" group at 600 yards. I know, I know - those are great numbers for most shooters at 600 - my point is it's about consistency. A shooter can throw a flyer on any shot in their string if their foundation is not solid - a too tight a grip then too loose a grip or too much pressure on your cheek weld and bam there's your flyer!

OP while we're talking about ES as a possible problem. A 20 ES is totally acceptable IMO...sure I get ES's lower but I have also run ES's in the 15 - 25 range and smashed everything out to 1500-1600 yards. Truth be told many people can't hold the difference between a 6 and a 20 ES AT DISTANCE to begin with lol say nothing of the reticle thickness. For the curious the 1 5/8 group is shot with an ES of 12-18 depending on the temp that day.

To all - I also accept the fact its fun for some of us to try and to get low teen or single digit ES but at some point it's over kill if you give yourself an MOA kill zone even out to 1200 yards. Look at a ballistics app and change the ES and look at the drop a various distances you'll be surprised. I stopped worrying about my ES as long is it less than 20 a long time ago. Hell I have a guy smashing stuff spot on and he's running a 31 ES (sure he's working on his reloading skills) but another guy I am working with running an 11 ES and....well we don't hear that steel ringing as much.

OP the advice you are getting is spot on. Change one thing at a time till you find the issue...sometimes it just a process of elimination.

If your ES is acceptable 20 fps or less and everything has been checked for tightness etc - have someone you know to be a solid shooter - take your rig for a spin and see if they get the same results before you start going down rabbit holes that are not necessary.

OP please post your findings.

25WSM.... I follow you and do realize the OP says he can shoot ...sometimes there is a "kernel of advice" that can help a shooter consider something he wasn't willing to before.

 

[Joefrazell]

Alright so I went back out today and tried a few different primers. All were loaded with 73 gr of rl26 and adg brass coal was the same at 2.898 roughly .010" off the lands

Shot at 200 yards with magneto speed attached via wiser precision mount. Shot off a a front front rest and rear rest.

Cci 250- 4 shots 2925fps, 2903, 2908, 2888. Group size 1.75" vertical and 3/8ths horizontal

Wlr non mag- 3 shots- 2920, 2916, 2902 fps - 2 3/8ths vertical and 1" horizontal

Rem 9 1/2 mag- 2897, 2904, 2921, 2914, 2921- 2" vertical, 1 1/4" horizontal

So same issue with these. As with the fed 215's
I had some of the fed 215's loaded and decided to try to shoot them off the bipod. I didn't have the Magento speed on it as I have to remove it to attach my bipod.
Bipod is a Harris. The model with cant. So with the bipod on I found something very interesting. Shot a 1 1/4" vertical and a 3 7/8" horizontal. So the stringing went the complete opposite. It's interesting as the vertical was right around 1/2 moa. The tightest this load has ever shot vertically but horrible horizontal!

So when shooting off the bipod I loaded into it just enough to where it sticks in my shoulder pocket when I pull up off the rear bag. Pull the rifle with shooting hand into my shoulder with the pressure being about the weight of the rifle. 10lbs. 90 degrees on the trigger and a press strait back. Making sure my body is strait back and 90 degrees. On all shots today I double checked my npa by closing eyes and doing two full breathing cycles and opening my eyes on my natural pause. Also did several dry fires to make sure my reticle didn't move and it was solid. I was holding 1/2 moa at worse. Solid rear v rest. Made sure it was compressed good and snug. Making sure my cheek weld was consistent and relaxing head on rifle.

At this point I don't know how it couldn't be me. But I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I don't have this issue with my other rifles. The only rifle that I have that's as accurate as this rifle should be is a Tikka ctr and I can be sloppy and still get 1/2- 3/4 moa without a problem and my groups are much more triangular. The Tikka is a 6.5 cm and is has a little bastard brake so the recoil is much less then the win mag but the beast bake in the win mag definitely tames it down. I can shoot it all day without a problem. Im guessing it's still the recoil that amplifies my errors in my fundamentals. Where to go from here.

 

[Chuck32571]

A lot of good suggestions thus far. Have you checked the Concentricity of all 4 rounds before firing? I'd pick 4 that had the same identical readings and see if it helps.

 

[MAD10]

This happened to me with a scope that I used up all its travel zeroing it. Well known manuf. great scope and brand new out of the box.

I just did not have enough rail on my gun to not max out the turrets. What occurred was under recoil my point of POA / POI was shifting after each shot and I could not figure it out - my ES was 17.

So make sure you have enough travel and enough cant in your rail

I put on a known good scope with more travel and boom 1/2 groups came raining down lol!!!

 

[FoxFly45]

Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.

I just read your post about eliminating the primer as culprit. If you haven't tried loading cartridges one at a time I would try just to make sure bullets aren't getting reseated under recoil. The other thing I would try would be to remove the muzzle break if you can and try without it. I've had them give me problems.

 

[L.Sherm]

Personally I'd leave the magneto off the barrel during load development.
Next I would load up .020, 030, 040 and .050 off and see what that does without the magneto on the barrel it will change harmonics

 

[Montana'eer]

I don't think it's recoil. Being recoil averse causes just crappy shooting all the way around.

Vertical stringing seems indicative of other problems. And I want to thank everyone for the input on this thread. I've learned a bit as well.

 

[Joefrazell]

Personally I'd leave the magneto off the barrel during load development.
Next I would load up .020, 030, 040 and .050 off and see what that does without the magneto on the barrel it will change harmonics

The magneto speed doesn't touch the barrel only the stock

 

[Stgraves260]

seriously - you try to correct me and are wrong....View attachment 209361

LoL!! Yes read what you sent me again. The lateral line is next to the vertical line going up and down. ( Next to ) lateral doesn't mean horizontal. Noir does it mean left or right.

 

[Stgraves260]

seriously - you try to correct me and are wrong....View attachment 209361

seriously - you try to correct me and are wrong....View attachment 209361

I guess the way to explain it best is When you play basketball. Someone my ask what's your vertical. If you were horizontal you would be laying on the ground.

 

[greenejc]

Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.

How big was the total group? Also, you might try shooting a larger group. I will generally shoot 5 shot to 10 shot strings to determine accuracy. Is your barrel a heavy sporter contour or a varmint or target contour?