Vanguard Sub MOA vs Savage 111 long range

[MontanaRifleman]

Montana - I appreciate your reply. Just used the 125 as an example. I use scenars most of the time I use the 260, just not as readily available. I would be comfortable using my 260 out to 700 yards, but then I know my capabilities. (And I've been told I'm a little bit towards the optimistic side most of the time!)

I also shoot a 7mm, but it bumps a little more, and the older I get, the nicer it is to feel less and still get the job done.

The Scenars should have a better BC than the partitions and being optimistic can be a good thing

 

[frequent misser]

I can say I have experience with both in several calibers. Overall I can say you can probably flip a coin. In the savages I have loaded for and shot the 6.5x284 and several other calibers in different models. All shot less than moa easily. Currently I am having a 7stw built off of a savage long action. In the weatherby I have shot the 300 weatherby and it was a 3/4 moa rifle with nothing but factory ammo, I am just starting load development for it. The others were actually Howa rifles. One in 308 and one in 7 mag. Both are 1/2 moa with handloads and shoot just about anything prety well. I know there is a pretty good price jump going to the submoa and I can tell you that I am not sure it is entirely worth it as I have yet to see a vanguard or a howa that didn't do it. If I were to pick an action to build off of I would probably favor the howa or vanguard. I am building one on a savage just because my howa shoots to dam good not to burn the barrel out on first. As someone else posted the triggers on the vanguards and howas are adjustable and I have had no problem tuning them to a crisp 2 lbs and I am no gunsmith. Just my .02 to mull over, clear as mud right......

 

[GoArmy]

Vanguard sub moa is in my hands, I decided to get the weatherby, or should I say howa 1500. I fired it today with hand loads, 168 bergers, it shot just under 3/4 inch at 100 yrds. What's a good brake in procedure for this Vanguard? Also the trigger is crap, I have a timmney on the way.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Vanguard sub moa is in my hands, I decided to get the weatherby, or should I say howa 1500. I fired it today with hand loads, 168 bergers, it shot just under 3/4 inch at 100 yrds. What's a good brake in procedure for this Vanguard? Also the trigger is crap, I have a timmney on the way.

Which chambering did you get? I'll bet with a new trigger and some load work you'll have a 500 yd .5 MOA rifle.

The last couple of days I've been to a few pawn shops and today the gun show handling and dry firing the Howa's, Vanguards and a M1500 S&W. Most of the triggers on the Vanguards and Howas left a lot to be desired but a few were OK and I picked up one of those in a 300 Wby for $300 for a future build. The S&W trigger is sweet, just like my other S&W.

You will get a lot of opinions on break-in and what I do is the one shot and clean method until fouling disappears or drops off to almost nothing between shots. The reason to clean after each shot is when you fire a shot, that single bullets will lay down copper in and around the rough spots you are trying burnish off. making any follow up shots useless. Once your bore stops or almost stops fowling after the first shot, you are GTG. IMO, guilded metal jacket bullets are better than copper bullets like Barnes for this. I use the guilded monometal E-Tips for this if I can. Also important is what solvent you use. If you are using a solvent that that seems to tell you you have a clean bore (when you don't) because you're no longer getting any blue patch indications, you're only getting part of the job done. The best break-in solvent that I have used is Bore Tech Eliminator. It's the fastest one I know of to get the job done and i've tries a lot of the other so-called best solvents like KG12, Butches Bore Shine, Montana Xtreme 50 BMG and others. When all these products were showing white patches, I followed up with BTE and got blue patches. Soak a patch and soak your bore and work it in with a few passes of a nylon brush. Let it soak 5 -20 minutes - 5 min the first couple of passes and longer soaking as you progress. To make sure your bore is free of copper you should wait at least 40 minutes on your final soak. You can see that this is a long and tedious process to do it right - been there and done it - so if you're doing this at the range, bring a good book or a couple of other rifles to shoot. For factory barrels this can take from 10-20 shots or more depending on the condition of the throat and bore which depends on the condition of the rifling equipment that rifled that bore out. Vanguards are hammer forged which is probably the best method of mass producing rilfe barrels.

Some guys don't break-in their barrels and are happy. I'm one that does the break-in thing. The benefit of breaking in a barrel is easier cleaning and more consistent shooing. That being said, as you shoot your rifle the throat is going to wear and become more susceptible to fouling, and... your throat and bore will be susceptible to oxidation pitting which will also increase fouling. Keep it as dry as possible. Just some things to think about.

Have fun with your new rifle

 

[cfvickers]

I have put about 40 rounds through a sub moa Vangard in .257 wby, and I have a LRH in 6.5-284. The LRH is more accurate hands down. the vangard is still very accurate and more portable. so what are you looking for. for paper, the Savage, for hunting, the weatherby in my opinion. Long Range, the Savage still wins though. I have a picture floating around here somewhere of a ten shot group with 7 different loads and four bullet weights, the group measured right at an inch if I remember correctly. That gun is amazing. 1/2 inch is your average, easy to find something to shoot in the .2s. .1s? well, it will do it but I am not good enough to do it consistently from my rest setup so I cannot say whether the gun or the shooter is the problem. I suspect the shooter though.

 

[GoArmy]

I got the 7mm REM. I will be loading 168 bergers, with 71 gr of retumba. I shot yesterday. And I am on my way out to shoot it again, and chronagraph my hand loads. This rifle will get a Vortex PST 6x24x50 scope.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

If you're loading Bergers I would recomend looking at the sticky posted in the reloading forum if you haven't already. They can be finicky about depth.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...accuracy-berger-vld-bullets-your-rifle-40204/

If you use BTE to clean your rifle, DO NOT use a brass jag. The BTE will imediately start disolving it and show a false copper indication your patch. I use nickle plated jags.