Using a kestrel and long range shooting target vs hunting

[GoosePilot]

So i feel pretty confident with my hunting setups in fairly nice conditions to 600-800 yards on game. Custom 6cm and 7 blaser with z5 scopes fitted with 2 turn moa turrets. Both guns more than capable of .5 moa to 1k. Use an older gunwerks br2 for solutions.

Yesterday I was at a fun shoot at a ranch 200-1200yd steel among other courses. It was blowing 25-40 mph and shooting against some pretty skilled and experienced guys. Some of them 600 yd competitors, gunsmith/competitors, and just experienced coyote hunters/ranchers.

I realized I have a bunch to learn yet lol. My z5s aren't really windage dialing scopes, nor do they have reticle to hold very much wind compared to competition type scopes.

I did recently purchase a x5 5-25 to put on an old Texas custom bench 22-250. I have not set up to reload for this gun yet so I'm just shooting hornady 55 vmax ammo. Again in fairly mild conditions it shoots fairly well out to 1k, but in wind it's really falling off compared to the 105 or 195 bergers in my hunting guns.

I purchased a kestrel 5700 elite and lightly used it on 3 outings now with 4 different guns. Not too hard to get elevations to 1200 yards dialed in but wind is another animal.

Each of the best guys Yesterday use the kestrel differently and I would say fairly minimally as far as what a kestrel is capable of. I would say they are more educated Kentucky windage style haha.

I feel like I should have shot better personally than I did even with the winds we had. I also feel like I'm kinda jumping into the middle of the precision long range pool fundamentally.

How do you expert shooters set up and use this "system" for long range competitions? How similarly or differently do you setup for hunting?

I'm have no desire to pack a 3lb big knob scope around for hunting, but I would like to get a little more serious on a setup or 2 for bench shooting.

What's the best way to learn the fundamentals and build a solid longer range shooting/competition skillset?

Should I buy a big scope(s) and swap hunting scopes out for days on the range? Leave hunting setups alone and build better bench setups? Like maybe turn 22-250 into 6 br, dasher, gt? Stay with moa or go to mil to maybe one day actually compete at some 600 or 1k or more events?

 

[chav0_12]

I use my kestrel for hunting but, I pair it with my rangefinder and make sure everything is connected before the critical moment. I make sure I update my wind when I can or if I feel it shift. When using it for target shooting I use it to setup a range card and keep those numbers so that I don't have to constantly range or search for the numbers. A little placard that attaches to the rifle or scope seems the best way to keep these handy. The one I have is from Cole-Tac and it attaches to the scope via shock cord. 25-40mph is insane wind speeds. I think the best way to build a skillset/tool bag is just do it and figure out what you need and don't have, what you have and don't need. Mil vs MOA is all preference, some will probably argue, mil is a more course adjustment than MOA but, also easier to calculate because of that. I'd get a scope that has the features that you need, a good competition style reticle in the FFP, both elevation and windage exposed turrets. They don't have to be 3lbs, but they can be. I'd shoot something better than a 22-250 with 55s but that's just me, I'm in the process of building a Dasher, you could even get a faster twist 22-250 and shoot the 80gr+ bullets and probably have better success.

 

[crashlanding]

Personally, I watch videos, James here @Barbour Creek is a wizard on these subjects as well as winning in the wind on you tube. Wind/mirage are two constant factors when shooting long range, your rifle, scope, cartridge, bullet, wind meter are all just tools to get there, all are only as good as the weakest link, if one is failing, replace it. But they are just the tools, you are the driver, nothing replaces range time on your part. Shoot shoot and shoot more if you want to get good, learn from issues encountered, find a way to correct them. I don't compete but I'm just as passionate about the sport of long range shooting as prs and bench rest. My personal experience

 

[Old Rooster]

Following! Wanting to get a Kestrel also and am dumb as a rock on setup!
Will get one as soon as get over my knee surgery. All get ready for questions me from as well.

 

[GoosePilot]

So far i have been very happy with the gunwerks br2 "system" if you will for hunting. I usually try to get downwind and shoot pretty directly into the wind if it's more than 20 mph in western dakotas and Montana.

Now if I start utilizing the kestrel style system, I could get more on board with geovids paired or not. A slightly different "system". Maybe have both...

Being a pilot, I am trying to wrap my head around the kestrel. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if my unit is acting up. I calibrate compass and capture a live temp reading and lock it. Next do a direction of fire for 1 or multiple target azimuth. I'm not really confident that my unit is functioning properly. The direction reading seams to fluctuate so I have just mostly entered the direction manually as I know them at the 2 ranges I'm practicing at.

Then I try to capture a wind reading and it gives me a bearing reading rather than a heading which seems backwards to me. A northwest wind say facing 300 degrees kestrel reads 120 degrees. That seems backwards but whatever....but often it's actually returning some direction that is 20-30 degrees off. I can see being off 5-10 degrees, but I'm pointing down a fence line or road and I would think it should be much more consistent.

The guys Yesterday simply held unit up to wind and captured it, then just told unit that target was 4 o'clock from wind or captured direction of fire (right or wrong) and then said wind was at 4 o clock.

Bottom line is non of them took both direction of fire and wind heading and used both from kestrel.

I am trying to do both and apply a single wind input on multiple targets that varied 40 degrees of fire change and I'm struggling with it's outputs. It seems at times it's giving a wind that's 20-30 degrees off actual. Then when my direction of fire changes 40 degrees, it might be on for one target and off for the others. I need to go to the airport and confirm this reading down runways and taxiway to say for 100% sure.

Then last night I youtube several kestrel videos. Todd hodnett, litz, prs guys and looks like they all do it differently too.

So I'm reaching out to find out where to look for direction from the ground up on kestrel and say 1000yd plate competition "system"s. Separate from hunting mentality for now. Then I'll figure which system to go with and if/how I'll incorporate that into hunting or use hunting rigs in "competition" or keep completely separated.

And it just always is windy where I'm at. Whether it's Texas panhandle or western SD, I'm likely to be shooting 20+ mph winds as anything less. So I feel a little more speed or a little more bc will outweigh a little more recoil in .20-7mm cartidges. Primarily interested in .22-6mm benchrest at the moment.

 

[chav0_12]

Following! Wanting to get a Kestrel also and am dumb as a rock on setup!
Will get one as soon as get over my knee surgery. All get ready for questions from as well.

They're pretty straight forward. I know I did a webinar given by them and it helped with setup a lot. Doing things like velocity truing are the more elaborate steps though. I would just get it and play with it. Most of the setup can be easily accomplished by playing with it and setting it up with the phone app. That's where I store and manipulate all of my gun profiles.

 

[Old Rooster]

They're pretty straight forward. I know I did a webinar given by them and it helped with setup a lot. Doing things like velocity truing are the more elaborate steps though. I would just get it and play with it. Most of the setup can be easily accomplished by playing with it and setting it up with the phone app. That's where I store and manipulate all of my gun profiles.

I also want to get the one with Link as I lost all my rifle profiles when my phone fried and had strelock on it.
Can I link that to my P C to keep as a reference?

 

[dfanonymous]

Such a broad question OP. If it could be answer in a simple 1 liner post, I reckon everyone would be a "expert."

I answer from the perspective of a PRS shooter, a sniper and a hunter.

Learn the basics. It's easy for people to come on here and talk about "mirage" but mirage isn't useful in 25-40 mph winds, in low light, and or really to the MPH in gust.

You really have to approach wind in a few different ways. Frank Gali likes to say wind is between the art department and the science department.
Every one of us that shoots well in wind divides the field into some variety of shooter, mid field and target side wind.

These are are averaged, and no doubt it can get a little complicated.

These wind at the shooter is the easiest to take an exact measurement most of the time. The kestrel is accurate to the MPH. That is a great baseline when trying to figure out the totality of your wind call. Where the "art department" comes in is being able to observe things in mid range and target range that deviate from the baseline and average it in. The other thing is the kestrel give you some useful data, and it's for a reason. You get two wind speeds…1 and 2. 1 is the average and 2 is the peak.

This helps with the art department. Sometimes in 25-40 mph winds it's better to shoot in the gust (peak) then the average. That's obviously because wind isn't consistent.

Lastly, back to the science department, taking your measurements, consider how high you can get the kestrel. Using tripod when applicable, with a weather vane and getting it as high as possible for wind capture is the best practice. That's because the wind will always be more at max ordinate of the bullet due to less friction slowing the wind down.

Knowing terrain and how it affects wind (flows like water) also helps develop "the art department " skills.

Long post, very generic information but again, if it was super simple, everyone would be able to do it on a whim.

For the military and now it's tricked into PRS, we usually do wind in our head. The kestrel in the last 4 years or so finally added a chest chart that basicly doesn't the same thing. We in PRS talk in MPH vs MIl because it's easier to share that information and be able to apply YOUR specific dope.

 

[Korhil78]

Shooting that far in that kind of wind is really hard. I have never done it but I can only imagine it would give people fits. But I bet you learned a lot from just doing it.

I use a kestrel with link and a Leica 3200.com but I only using it for hunting. With that said, if the wind was blowing that hard, I would get closer in the hunting scenario haha.

 

[GoosePilot]

Thanks dfanonymous that's the kind of perspective I am looking for.

A nearby mesonet station recorded pretty constant 5-10 gusts on top of gradually increasing winds over the day that started mid morning around 10mph and went up to 30 before slightly tapering off. So 20 gusting to 25-30 for instance covered alot of the day. Nw wind and shooting 160 to 200 degree targets. We were in slightly falling terrain so our observed winds were likely 5 mph less than the mesonet tower. I had to hold a little over 10 moa right for the 1205 target with 105 hyb in my 6cm. My college buddy made 1st shot impact about 3-4" off center. I missed by 24" or so 2x

I'll look up Frank Gali. Anyone else to look into or books to study? How about reticle preferences?

Bigngreen I would sure like to hear your perspective...

 

[GoosePilot]

Shooting that far in that kind of wind is really hard. I have never done it but I can only imagine it would give people fits. But I bet you learned a lot from just doing it.

I use a kestrel with link and a Leica 3200.com but I only using it for hunting. With that said, if the wind was blowing that hard, I would get closer in the hunting scenario haha.

Absolutely agree I would get closer and more in line with the wind if it's were hunting.

Ya I learned a bunch and it was a real fun day. My little ruger target lite did well at 50-200yds. It's about a 1 moa deal. Next weekend a guy is bringing his cz and voodoo 22s. My 75 grain vmax load in 6cm did pretty well to 400 too for the varmit round.

Lots of new things and I know it will take some time practicing with all of it. The wind definitely separates the experienced from the less experienced no matter the toys.

 

[dfanonymous]

Thanks dfanonymous that's the kind of perspective I am looking for.

A nearby mesonet station recorded pretty constant 5-10 gusts on top of gradually increasing winds over the day that started mid morning around 10mph and went up to 30 before slightly tapering off. So 20 gusting to 25-30 for instance covered alot of the day. Nw wind and shooting 160 to 200 degree targets. We were in slightly falling terrain so our observed winds were likely 5 mph less than the mesonet tower. I had to hold a little over 10 moa right for the 1205 target with 105 hyb in my 6cm. My college buddy made 1st shot impact about 3-4" off center. I missed by 24" or so 2x

I'll look up Frank Gali. Anyone else to look into or books to study? How about reticle preferences?

Bigngreen I would sure like to hear your perspective...

Frank is the owner of the forum sniperhide, and instructor, sniper and author of multiple books including Precision Rifle Marksmanship. Checking out his podcast at the everyday sniper would be a good bet. On the same subject, there's a decent amount of good podcast that put out some good information from well known shooters and instructors.

A guy that is really good at calling wind as well as instructing on it is Emil Praslick. Not sure how much he's publicly spoken on it in terms of online or podcast but he knows his ****. He's been part of the AB shooting team.

Reticles are super subjective. They should speak to you. It doesn't matter how useful a Horus H59 is if you get lost in it, or have no interest to learn it. That said, I like Christmas tree reticles. I got real good at the T3, but I can really use anything, including the vortex ebr ones. I dial elevation and hold wind. With 28 mils of wind in the reticle, it would be hard to run out.

Other than that, really know the basics, and get familiar with your equipment, including the kestrel.
Learn how certain things blow down range and what that looks like. Write it down.

While mirage is sometimes overrated, it's still a great tool. Don't discount any tool in the box.
Learn about a "no wind zero."

Practice specific goals, don't just launch bullets and guess. That doesn't teach you anything. Thats like going to the gym and throwing some random weights around and calling "training."