Hmmmmm.......Can we pre-order????????? Have a feeling they will be swamped a little.
Update on the high BC hammers?
- Thread starter Huntnful
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I've been waiting for more info on these as well. I have a new 6.5 saum and wanted to try them in it. I got impatient Sunday and loaded up some 131 hh with 61-62.5 grains of h1000 in adg brass with a f210 and 8 shots were just over 1/2" outside spread at a 100 yards! I was pleasantly surprised I was just trying to work up and find pressure. The far right shot was a clean barrel fowler. I guess I should have a good load until the new ones come out!
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My 264 WMI seems to like the 125 Lazers at 3700fps. This was first load out of the gate. Just a little over pressure.
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High BC and Hammer's...Got my interest
RockyMtnUT
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Wedgy
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 9, 2013
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They are a bit more finicky on seating depth but predictable, either at the lands or - .005" or .0200-.0300" off.
I have actually shot a ladder test that progressively went clockwise around the clock 4" off center at 600 yards, never seen anything like it. Monos seem to have a lot more horizontal shift with powder charge changes than lead bullets. CEB's have a bit more bearing surface than Hammers so you won't get as much velocity but the trade off is the higher BC so if you are shooting past ~700 yards then Lazer pays off. I run the 140 Lazer at 3,080fps from a 6.5 Sherman and I have a .660 BC out to 1,404 yards, works on the Revic and Sig. They have a big hollowpoint with a plastic tip and expand down to 1,300 fps, same characteristics where the front breaks off and the shank penetrates thru. The Lazers do this more so than their MTH line that has a smaller hollowpoint and no plastic tip, not as much expansion from the MTH line.
I can run the Hammers just as easily and dope a bit more, if you run the numbers it's ever so slight. But....and it's a big hairy butt.....I ordered from CEB on last years black friday sale and got my bullets in May of the following year so if you want your bullets fast then go with Hammer. I have sold CEB bullets to 3 forum members who were out and needed them for an upcoming hunt. Something to keep in mind.
Bottom line is that everything is a compromise in some way and there's really no right or wrong choice, glad we have lots of choices....I'm sure huntnful will try all of them !
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Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
It is always amazing to me to see how the general shooting public form opinions and mindsets about certain things. As mentioned, i worked with Hammer bullets for quite some time when they started up, built many test rifles for them and tested their bullets in many of my wildcats and used their bullets to harvest many trophy quality big game and also many does for the freezer as well. What has always stood out to me was how easy these bullets were to get to shoot well. Not that my rifles are finicky in any way, rarely are they overly picky but the Hammer bullets do shoot extremely well most of the time once you realize they have a different personality then most bullets, especially other solids. They behave much more like fast conventional bullets then solids. Even with the velocity gains you see with Hammer bullets, many customers, when given the option will choose another bullet when we are deciding which bullet their want their rifles tested for. The hang up most have is the BC of these bullets, especially in smaller calibers. Its simply very difficult to get a high BC in a solid bullet that is smaller then 7mm. Now that is not to say these are not useful for long range shooting.
the BC is very consistent which provides great long range consistency. Terminal performance is very good at long range from what i have seen as well but many get hung up on the NUMBER Or name.
An example of this, i had a customer bring me a rem 700 many years back, he wanted me to rebuild it into a 6.5-06 with the barrel he had provided. The barrel was a good barrel but will not mention the maker. Full rebuild on the rifle, got it finished, blueprinted, new barrel, new stock, pillar bedded. Rifle would not shoot with any of the top of list accuracy bullets or big game bullets. Tested over a dozen bullets in this rifle and best it would do was 1 moa and most loads were in the 1.5 moa range. Sitting there at the loading bench, about at my wits end i noticed a box of 140 gr spitzer SP flat base speer bullets there. Figured what the hell……
shot five three shot groups and the average group size was slightly less then 3/8" ctc. Largest group of the five was well under 1/2" ctc. Tested at a full 1000 yards and it was fully capable of 1/2 to 3/4 moa class accuracy, I was thrilled. For what the customer was wanting to do, this CHEAP bullet would perform extremely well. Called the customer up and told him the rifle was ready. When he arrived to pick up the rifle and i showed him how the rifle shot with the Speers, he instantly said he could not live with a rifle that he had to shoot speer bullets out of. Just to boring, not high enough BC and to cheap of a bullet…. He said his friends would never let him live with that…….
in the end, he sent the barrel back to the maker for a replacement even though he had a 3/8" class rifle…. he did get a replacement barrel but decided to use a bartlein when we rebarreled that rifle. It did shoot the SEXY bullets, his words, well so he was happy, even though he had to pay for a second barrel install charge.
all because he felt the BC was to low on those unsexy speer bullets…
now i have made a living building hyper performance wildcats using heavy for caliber bullets driven to very high velocities and yes, for shooting out past 800 yards and certainly past 1000 yards and obviously in windy conditions you want the highest BC possible, but for most who never hunt past 600 yards and often use relatively normal performance cartridges, the Hammer bullets will serve most better then they need.
BC is such a mental block for many they do not even give them a try before discounting them. Now, not saying Hammer bullets are the best for every situation, certainly not, i use mostly Berger but also nosler and hornady and sierra bullets quite often. They all work well, they all have their strengths and limits. For most big game hunting out to 600 yards and even 800 yards the hammer bullets work great, even with their relatively low BC values. For hunting from zero to 400 yards, they are as good as any out there and better then most, especially in high velocity applications. Just saying, dont get to hung up on BC unless your looking to frequently push past 800 yards big game hunting…. The other performance aspects of Hammer bullets often prove more valuable then BC at the ranges most hunters use them at.
the BC is very consistent which provides great long range consistency. Terminal performance is very good at long range from what i have seen as well but many get hung up on the NUMBER Or name.
An example of this, i had a customer bring me a rem 700 many years back, he wanted me to rebuild it into a 6.5-06 with the barrel he had provided. The barrel was a good barrel but will not mention the maker. Full rebuild on the rifle, got it finished, blueprinted, new barrel, new stock, pillar bedded. Rifle would not shoot with any of the top of list accuracy bullets or big game bullets. Tested over a dozen bullets in this rifle and best it would do was 1 moa and most loads were in the 1.5 moa range. Sitting there at the loading bench, about at my wits end i noticed a box of 140 gr spitzer SP flat base speer bullets there. Figured what the hell……
shot five three shot groups and the average group size was slightly less then 3/8" ctc. Largest group of the five was well under 1/2" ctc. Tested at a full 1000 yards and it was fully capable of 1/2 to 3/4 moa class accuracy, I was thrilled. For what the customer was wanting to do, this CHEAP bullet would perform extremely well. Called the customer up and told him the rifle was ready. When he arrived to pick up the rifle and i showed him how the rifle shot with the Speers, he instantly said he could not live with a rifle that he had to shoot speer bullets out of. Just to boring, not high enough BC and to cheap of a bullet…. He said his friends would never let him live with that…….
in the end, he sent the barrel back to the maker for a replacement even though he had a 3/8" class rifle…. he did get a replacement barrel but decided to use a bartlein when we rebarreled that rifle. It did shoot the SEXY bullets, his words, well so he was happy, even though he had to pay for a second barrel install charge.
all because he felt the BC was to low on those unsexy speer bullets…
now i have made a living building hyper performance wildcats using heavy for caliber bullets driven to very high velocities and yes, for shooting out past 800 yards and certainly past 1000 yards and obviously in windy conditions you want the highest BC possible, but for most who never hunt past 600 yards and often use relatively normal performance cartridges, the Hammer bullets will serve most better then they need.
BC is such a mental block for many they do not even give them a try before discounting them. Now, not saying Hammer bullets are the best for every situation, certainly not, i use mostly Berger but also nosler and hornady and sierra bullets quite often. They all work well, they all have their strengths and limits. For most big game hunting out to 600 yards and even 800 yards the hammer bullets work great, even with their relatively low BC values. For hunting from zero to 400 yards, they are as good as any out there and better then most, especially in high velocity applications. Just saying, dont get to hung up on BC unless your looking to frequently push past 800 yards big game hunting…. The other performance aspects of Hammer bullets often prove more valuable then BC at the ranges most hunters use them at.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Very well said. I've been saying the same thing for a while also. I do want the true long range killing performance past 800 yards, which is why I've switched back to lead. Not that the bigger 7mm and 30 cal hammers don't maintain velocity out to those distances either. It's basically just the wind. And I like the Terminal Performance of a thin jacket lead bullet rapidly expanding at a longer distance. Personal preference there is all.It is always amazing to me to see how the general shooting public form opinions and mindsets about certain things. As mentioned, i worked with Hammer bullets for quite some time when they started up, built many test rifles for them and tested their bullets in many of my wildcats and used their bullets to harvest many trophy quality big game and also many does for the freezer as well. What has always stood out to me was how easy these bullets were to get to shoot well. Not that my rifles are finicky in any way, rarely are they overly picky but the Hammer bullets do shoot extremely well most of the time once you realize they have a different personality then most bullets, especially other solids. They behave much more like fast conventional bullets then solids. Even with the velocity gains you see with Hammer bullets, many customers, when given the option will choose another bullet when we are deciding which bullet their want their rifles tested for. The hang up most have is the BC of these bullets, especially in smaller calibers. Its simply very difficult to get a high BC in a solid bullet that is smaller then 7mm. Now that is not to say these are not useful for long range shooting.
the BC is very consistent which provides great long range consistency. Terminal performance is very good at long range from what i have seen as well but many get hung up on the NUMBER Or name.
An example of this, i had a customer bring me a rem 700 many years back, he wanted me to rebuild it into a 6.5-06 with the barrel he had provided. The barrel was a good barrel but will not mention the maker. Full rebuild on the rifle, got it finished, blueprinted, new barrel, new stock, pillar bedded. Rifle would not shoot with any of the top of list accuracy bullets or big game bullets. Tested over a dozen bullets in this rifle and best it would do was 1 moa and most loads were in the 1.5 moa range. Sitting there at the loading bench, about at my wits end i noticed a box of 140 gr spitzer SP flat base speer bullets there. Figured what the hell……
shot five three shot groups and the average group size was slightly less then 3/8" ctc. Largest group of the five was well under 1/2" ctc. Tested at a full 1000 yards and it was fully capable of 1/2 to 3/4 moa class accuracy, I was thrilled. For what the customer was wanting to do, this CHEAP bullet would perform extremely well. Called the customer up and told him the rifle was ready. When he arrived to pick up the rifle and i showed him how the rifle shot with the Speers, he instantly said he could not live with a rifle that he had to shoot speer bullets out of. Just to boring, not high enough BC and to cheap of a bullet…. He said his friends would never let him live with that…….
in the end, he sent the barrel back to the maker for a replacement even though he had a 3/8" class rifle…. he did get a replacement barrel but decided to use a bartlein when we rebarreled that rifle. It did shoot the SEXY bullets, his words, well so he was happy, even though he had to pay for a second barrel install charge.
all because he felt the BC was to low on those unsexy speer bullets…
now i have made a living building hyper performance wildcats using heavy for caliber bullets driven to very high velocities and yes, for shooting out past 800 yards and certainly past 1000 yards and obviously in windy conditions you want the highest BC possible, but for most who never hunt past 600 yards and often use relatively normal performance cartridges, the Hammer bullets will serve most better then they need.
BC is such a mental block for many they do not even give them a try before discounting them. Now, not saying Hammer bullets are the best for every situation, certainly not, i use mostly Berger but also nosler and hornady and sierra bullets quite often. They all work well, they all have their strengths and limits. For most big game hunting out to 600 yards and even 800 yards the hammer bullets work great, even with their relatively low BC values. For hunting from zero to 400 yards, they are as good as any out there and better then most, especially in high velocity applications. Just saying, dont get to hung up on BC unless your looking to frequently push past 800 yards big game hunting…. The other performance aspects of Hammer bullets often prove more valuable then BC at the ranges most hunters use them at.
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Indeed, that post is one for the archives, Kirby. Thank you for taking the time!
