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Two shooters, two different POI, same gun

Guys, thanks for all the interesting replies. This has been informative, and makes me wonder how I even get a
1 MOA group. I thought POA was POA.
POA is POA but everyone's POI is different. It's all based on the above posts people left. Many variables for sure. If you put any given rifle in a vice so it's POI was zeroed based on that vice, each POI would be slightly different from human differences when shot in the arms of different people
 
Guys, thanks for all the interesting replies. This has been informative, and makes me wonder how I even get a
1 MOA group. I thought POA was POA.
This doesn't have so much to do with group size (precision) as it does with group location. (accuracy)

The primary benefit shooters I mentor later recount, is how much more consistent their accuracy is from session to session. Their group sizes tend to improve as well, but generally not as dramatically as their ability to place individual shots much closer to their intended point of aim. A shooter can be violating natural point of aim like crazy and still produce good groups... but the location of that group in relation to the point of aim will vary wildly from firing position to firing position, and session to session.

This is the primary reason many people struggle with "wandering zero's." The Bullets from the Bible series on our youtube channel helps tremendously with this, and then our apprentice level mentorship program on our channel will provide the individual support to take you to the next plateau for sure.


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Funny…. I've never really experienced ANY of this. I sight rifles in, and can hand them to my kids, or girlfriend, or some random dude on the side of a mountain…. and they hit stuff for a long ways, provided they follow instructions.
 
Funny…. I've never really experienced ANY of this. I sight rifles in, and can hand them to my kids, or girlfriend, or some random dude on the side of a mountain…. and they hit stuff for a long ways, provided they follow instructions.
Maybe thats the case with new shooters but seasoned guys have their own way of shooting and that won't change. I'm always learning but I won't change how I shoot just cause I use someone else's rifle. I'd take it to the range, zero it in( make sure it's zeroed for me) then hunt with it. I'd put the zero back where it was before I re-zeroed it before returning it. New shooters need to be schooled so that's never an issue with them. Shooting from a rest and bags is entirely different than shooting in hunting scenarios. Holds vary also. There is alot more to it than just one discipline of shooting. That's probably why POI isn't always the same with every shooter and style of shooting if using the same rifle. For the most part, my shooting is consistent regardless which of my guns I shoot or which form I use. Groups may be off a little with each type but group size is usually pretty decent. My son shoots inside an inch of my groups with my rifles but not in the same exact clusters. Probably a hard or loose hold issue I'd guess. Can't really say.
 
Nope…. I've handed rifles to complete strangers at matches, and shot with some very seasoned riflemen. Never seen an issue with other guys shooting my rifles…. or shooting other folk's wares. Maybe I've got a very neutral face structure.
 
Nope…. I've handed rifles to complete strangers at matches, and shot with some very seasoned riflemen. Never seen an issue with other guys shooting my rifles…. or shooting other folk's wares. Maybe I've got a very neutral face structure.
I guess I meant it's more likely if your all shooting the same discipline, it's more likely you'd shoot closer than offering that same rifle to a person for another discipline such as hunting where the hold of the rifle would be different. Matches usually are the same (prone, bench, etc). I will say since the OP was shooting with his girlfriend and the two had different POI from the same rifle makes a little more sense to me than say two men shooting. Many women naturally shoot better than men. I can believe a difference in POI in men and women. When my son and I shoot the same rests and gun, we're close enough to hardly tell a difference. Very little change in group location. Could be a vision thing. I wear glasses, he doesn't.
 
Rest doesn't matter…. Backpack, bipod, sandbags. Shooting steel in the field, spots from the bench, critters in the woods… doesn't matter either. I remember watching 7 different kids (9-15, boys and girls), shoot a 6 Creed off several different rests…. and pound a couple rounds a piece…. on a 1/2 size coyote silhouette at 350, don't remember too many misses.

I've "sighted in" dozens of rifles for folks, only to have them make hits out to 500+ straight out of the gate. Like I said, I must have a very neutral face.
 
Rest doesn't matter…. Backpack, bipod, sandbags. Shooting steel in the field, spots from the bench, critters in the woods… doesn't matter either. I remember watching 7 different kids (9-15, boys and girls), shoot a 6 Creed off several different rests…. and pound a couple rounds a piece…. on a 1/2 size coyote silhouette at 350, don't remember too many misses.

I've "sighted in" dozens of rifles for folks, only to have them make hits out to 500+ straight out of the gate. Like I said, I must have a very neutral face.
If the target is large enough, making hits won't be a problem. The effect being discussed here is typically a 1MOA dispersion at most. Most typically it hovers around half MOA, representing 1 to 2 clicks on a typical optic.


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Very common when you consider the builds of different people and their natural point of aim. Only those who truly get behind a scope exactly the same have the same poi.
Cheek weld as related to eye alignment to ocular center of scope.
I agree, an adjustable cheek riser that is adjusted accordingly between shooters would take a lot of the variation out most likely. But even still, there are a bunch of smaller factors that would effect it as well. Consistency is key, and if you can guarantee that each persons eye was at the same spot in relation to the scope, it should condense the poi's considerably. All else being equil of course. This is all just my observations and should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
A great many years ago. A friend had a Browning Auto loader in 7mm Rem Mag, his wife got him for Christmas. Now he was going to hunt out-of-state with my brother and another friend.
He must of gone through 10 boxes of shells with it. That rifle would not hold or shoot the same point. The scope was tight and right. We exchanged it for a 7mm Rem Mag in a 700 Rem. The same scope moved to the new Rem rifle. He didn't have much time, so my brother that already had a 7mm RM in a Rem. He had already develop a load in his rifle. (End up being the same load) He got it tuned in. I finish checking to confirm grouping, and set it up at 1" @ 100yds. Groups were about 1/2 @ 100yds. Now the interesting part. We both shot the rifle and had the same impact point. We met with our friend that was going on that hunt at a another location. Set up targets, and he started shooting the rifle. Now he couldn't even get it on paper. I confirmed it was hitting at 100yds and dead on. We had to move the target back to 25yds, and readjust the scope for him. Moved it out to 100yds for him. His groups were what we had been shooting. It had to be how he was holding his rifle or any rifle. For all the years I have been shooting, that was the first time I couldn't pick up somebody else rifle and place groups in the same location as the other person did. I am left handed, and most others are right handed.
I like this even though it wasn't between two people. Unfortunately I don't have a range over 100yds. Bullet was a 195 EOL running 2800 measured with LabRadar, es 22 over 30 rds, 0.5 moa or less if I do my part. I was messing around stretching out a new rifle in the field hunting. The hunt was really slow in the area so I decided shoot further than 250. I Shot to about 500 prone I was over 2 moa low. I was frustrated and tried to recalibrate my dope table using the drop. Well to tell the truth, I ended up going back to the original table after shooting out to 700yds. It was how I was mounting the gun. I believe more so with butt placement on shoulder. It changes how the gun recoils/deflects and bullet impact. I had to slow down and do everything the same way and my original dope table was good to 1000. .
 
Not yet.

It was a consistent shift in vertical. Started with her shooting and centering the shots on the plate. I then took a shot and it landed low. I adjusted and the shot centered up on the target. After my adjustment she fired and the shot landed a minute high while mine would land low following her adjustment for a center hit
I would attribute this to recoil, and that your controlling it or absorbing it more decreasing muzzle rise, I say this because I have the same thing happen if I zero in a lead sled that is sucking up the recoil vs when I shot off a bag or bi-pod the impact is higher. I have read that technically the bullet has left the barrel by the time we feel recoil so why does this happen? Milliseconds of time and thousands of an inch in movement is my guess = 1 minute downrange. It would be interesting to see what a ballistic calculator calls for, who is it closer to?
 
So her grouping at 505 were in the 2-3" range.

In relation her's impacted higher than mine by about a 1 minute

In the final few shots we shot at 315, initial shot was high, I misjudged and told bring it down a moa, impact was exactly 1 moa below that and the next shot after a moa of adjustment was spot on for tracking and zero. As was the 2 shots at 505 landing center

So IDK it tracked and she's consistent about whatever she's doing
 
We're chalking it up to a difference in vision
I have corrected vision while she has an astigmatism.

She's able to see bullet impacts on the steel and the cross hairs aren't moving off the target so likely not a NPA issue

Again, the difference in where our shots land are entirely vertical by about a minute.
 
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