Twist on the one rifle question

[LanceK]

This is a good plan.

Side note: MOA and MILS as angular measurements have nothing to do with any particular type of linear measurements. You can use MOA with meters just as easily as MILS with yards...but that brings me to my bit of advice.

Regardless of the rig you choose to learn on, your biggest challenge will be to stop thinking in linear measurements for scope adjustments. Scopes adjust in angles, either MILS or MOA, not feet or meters.

When you dial for a distance, it is just a number. It can be 35 MOA or 10 MILS. It can be 1000 yards or 1000 meters, it matters not. One number is as good as another. Most shooters get that fairly easily.

Where new shooters start to go off the rails is with wind doping and shot corrections. The tendency is to assign a LINEAR value to the correction (e.g. I missed by about a foot so....a foot at 500 yards is....). That is wrong thinking. The correct way is to use the reticle to measure the correction in ANGLES (e.g. I missed by 0.3 MILS right...so hold 0.3 MILS left). This takes all math out of the equation. The angle is a constant that doesn't change with range. A 2MOA miss is a 2 MOA miss, whether it is at 100 yards or 1000 yards. The hold or the dial correction is exactly the same.

I would get familiar with this concept before you go to a training course. There is so much to learn at a course that if you are struggling with a completely foreign concept on top of all the fundamental marksmanship stuff, you are not going to get the maximum effect of the training.

Thanks! Great advice. I'm going to study on these concepts more and get them right in my head first.

 

[Chase723]

Some might disagree with the advice I'm about to give you, but knowing what I know now through personal experience it will save you several thousands of dollars in the long run once you start this endeavor. Make no mistake, it's definitely an investment up front, but the set up you will have in the end will be comprised of the highest quality components in the industry and will be modular.

If I were to start from scratch again what I would do is first start with a custom long action. There are several to choose from, but personally I'd pick one with a 60 deg bolt throw (because I like that) and a replaceable bolt face. Again the concept for the system is modular. If you use a long action you can still run many short action cartridges in it with long, high BC bullets seated how they're supposed to be seated. A simple bolt face swap and you're in business for almost anything. You could buy both a long and short but that doubles your cost...Or if you don't plan on shooting a long action cartridge then just buy a short action.

Next send it off to a reputable gunsmith to turn it into a simple switch barrel rig where you have flats for like an 11/16" crows foot on a torque wrench machined on the front, behind the muzzle threads, so you can screw the barrel on and off from the front with a torque wrench. Ask them to set it up to headspace at 40 or so ft/lbs and have it shoulder directly onto the action. The use of a ARC Barloc device or WTO switch lug isn't necessary. Two examples of Gunsmiths who will do this are Harrels Precision and LRI. Benchmark might but I don't know for sure. Obviously, use a custom barrel. The difference between a factory barrel and a custom barrel is exponentially different. I don't shoot 3 shots and call it good. I shoot 50-200 rounds. My custom barrels POI never changes. Doesn't matter if you use cut rifled or button. I have both types and they all are hammers.

Put a picatinny rail on top.

Put a custom trigger in it. I prefer TriggerTech but there are a bunch to choose from.

Get a chassis (I have an MPA BA Lite because I like the weight and its intrinsic features) or something like a Manners EH series with a mini chassis. No need to bed either one. Also having a detachable magazine is nice for some stuff and not as nice in other situations (I.e. hunting because it can get hung up) but that is a personal choice. I personally just use a smaller magazine when hunting and it doesn't get hung up. Carbon fiber definitely is warmer than aluminum in cold weather, but a skid pad on a chassis also takes care of that issue.

Obviously get a bipod that you can attach to whatever chassis or stock you buy. Mine is a Harris (there's others that are great and different) on an ADM QD picatinny mount, so it snaps on and off quickly and can be switched between rifles in only a couple seconds.

I'd also recommend a sling with qd attachments that plug into flush cups. That way you can buy 1 good sling and use it on multiple rifles, and again it only takes a few seconds to put on and take off.

Also buy (or make) and start shooting with a rear bag, and learn to load your bipod. You'll be stable enough to shoot 1/3-1/2 MOA no prob.

Put excellent, FFP, essentially 100% repeatable, glass on it. There are several choices out there (PRB has done some excellent testing and reviews). Just know that more expensive doesn't necessarily equate to better/way better. Plan to spend between $1500-3500 on glass. Doesn't matter if it's MOA or Mil, just make sure the reticle matches the adjustments. I run Steiner T5Xis because they have everything I want at a price that is relatively reasonable, they're made in America, they're built to withstand anything, and if something were to happen to them their customer service is excellent. I personally like the H59 reticle but I also run the SCR and it's just fine.

Put your glass in a repeatable qd mount. I use one from LaRue. There are other options but theirs return to zero 100% of the time.

Buy the highest quality laser range finder you can afford that can reliably range soft targets beyond 1000 yards. The reason I say 1000 is because you'll realize that once you're set up 500 is a cake walk, and you'll want to take it out further any chance you get. That said, you can't hit anything if you don't know how far away it is and when you get beyond 400 yards you need to start to be extremely exact because at extended distances your drop data can change drastically with small changes in distance. Currently there are a couple options that incorporate both a range finder as well as a ballistic computer. Personally as soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy the Gunwerks BR2500 because it is field expedient (meaning I can adjust the ballistics software in the field) and can store data for 5 rifles. Another excellent option is the Leica HD B2200 or 3000. Not field expedient in the same way (software has to be changed at home and only stores data for 1 rifle at a time) but once set up is ultra fast with exceptional glass and is a 10x bino.

Invest in and get good at reloading, that's a whole other topic, but strive for a load with an ES of less than 30 and an SD of less than 15 and it'll treat you well wayyyyy out there.

What you'll have now is a rifle system that likely costs somewhere between $5000 and $6500 to build and is completely modular, reliable in all conditions, will be an absolute hammer, and comprised of the best components available. I can guarantee you that if you miss it'll be because of you. You should expect that you'll be able to take the whole thing apart (take your scope and barrel off, take it out of the chassis, etc) and put it back together and your zero should still be the same. You will be able to switch barrels in the field with a simple torque wrench. Furthermore, your gunsmith can save the specs on your barrels so they can simply chamber one for you and ship it to your house (no need to send them your action) and you just torque it on, put in the right bolt face, load and shoot. Takes like 5 minutes.

Finally every time from there on out that you want to change cartridges, rebarrel, or whatever it is $650 for a new custom barrel instead of $3500-$5000 for another rifle, and again you never have to send your barreled action back, and you never have to rebuy scopes, mounts, stocks, etc. For perspective, how many people do you know who have 6 or 7 $800 rifles none of which are ideal, not to mention the glass on them is simply less than stellar and incapable of performing reliably forever (maybe not even ever), their range finder can't reliably range a target beyond 4 or 500 yards and it takes 2-5 minutes to determine the appropriate correction to make the shot. That all equates to a lot of missed opportunities and yearning for something better. Well, instead of that, for the same money you'll have a world class rig, torque wrench, and a couple barrels that does everything you could ever want or dream of.

My .2 cents

 

[TX Badger]

Some might disagree with the advice I'm about to give you, but knowing what I know now through personal experience it will save you several thousands of dollars in the long run once you start this endeavor. Make no mistake, it's definitely an investment up front, but the set up you will have in the end will be comprised of the highest quality components in the industry and will be modular.

If I were to start from scratch again what I would do is first start with a custom long action. There are several to choose from, but personally I'd pick one with a 60 deg bolt throw (because I like that) and a replaceable bolt face. Again the concept for the system is modular. If you use a long action you can still run many short action cartridges in it with long, high BC bullets seated how they're supposed to be seated. A simple bolt face swap and you're in business for almost anything. You could buy both a long and short but that doubles your cost.

Next send it off to a reputable gunsmith to turn it into a simple switch barrel rig where you have flats for like an 11/16" crows foot on a torque wrench machined on the front, behind the muzzle threads, so you can screw the barrel on and off from the front with a torque wrench. Ask them to set it up to headspace at 40 or so ft/lbs and have it shoulder directly onto the action. The use of a ARC Barloc device or WTO switch lug isn't necessary. Two examples of Gunsmiths who will do this are Harrels Precision and LRI. Benchmark might but I don't know for sure. Obviously, use a custom barrel. The difference between a factory barrel and a custom barrel is exponentially different. I don't shoot 3 shots and call it good. I shoot 50-200 rounds. My custom barrels POI never changes. Doesn't matter if you use cut rifled or button. I have both types and they all are hammers.

Put a picatinny rail on top.

Put a custom trigger in it. I prefer TriggerTech but there are a bunch to choose from.

Get a lightweight chassis (I have an MPA BA Lite because of its intrinsic features) or something like a Manners EH series with a mini chassis. Having a detachable magazine is nice for some stuff and not as nice in other situations, which is a personal choice. Carbon fiber definitely is warmer than aluminum in cold weather...

Put excellent, FFP, essentially 100% repeatable glass on it. There are several choices out there (PRB has done some excellent testing and reviews). Just know that more expensive doesn't necessarily equate to better/way better. Plan to spend between $1500-3500 on glass. Doesn't matter if it's MOA or Mil, just make sure the reticle matches the adjustments. I run Steiner T5Xis because they have everything I want at a price that is relatively reasonable, they're made in America, they're built to withstand anything, and if something were to happen to them their customer service is excellent. I personally like the H59 reticle but I also run the SCR and it's just fine.

Put your glass in a repeatable qd mount. I use one from LaRue. There are other options but theirs return to zero 100% of the time.

Buy the highest quality laser range finder you can afford that can reliably range soft targets beyond 1000 yards. The reason I say 1000 is because you'll realize that once you're set up 500 is a cake walk, and you'll want to take it out further any chance you get. That said, you can't hit anything if you don't know how far away it is and when you get beyond 400 yards you need to start to be extremely exact because at extended distances your drop data can change drastically with small changes in distance. Currently there are a couple options that incorporate both a range finder as well as a ballistic computer. Personally as soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy the Gunwerks BR2500 because it is field expedient (meaning I can adjust the ballistics software in the field) and can store data for 5 rifles. Another excellent option is the Leica HD B2200 or 3000. Not field expedient in the same way (software has to be changed at home and only stores data for 1 rifle at a time) but once set up is ultra fast with exceptional glass and is a 10x bino.

What you'll have now is a rifle system that likely costs somewhere between $5000 and $6500 to build and is completely modular, reliable in all conditions, will be an absolute hammer, and comprised of the best components available. I can guarantee you that if you miss it'll be because of you. You should expect that you'll be able to take the whole thing apart (take your scope and barrel off, take it out of the chassis, etc) and put it back together and your zero should still be the same. You will be able to switch barrels in the field with a simple torque wrench. Furthermore, your gunsmith can save the specs on your barrels so they can simply chamber one for you and ship it to your house (no need to send them your action) and you just torque it on, put in the right bolt face, load and shoot. Takes like 5 minutes.

Finally every time from there on out that you want to change cartridges, rebarrel, or whatever is $650 for a new custom barrel instead of $3500-$5000 for another rifle, and again you never have to send your barreled action back. For perspective, how many people do you know who have 6 or 7 $800 rifles none of which are ideal, not to mention the glass on them is simply less than stellar and incapable of performing reliably forever (maybe not even ever), they're range finder can't reliably range a target beyond 4 or 500 yards and it takes 2-5 minutes to determine the appropriate correction to make the shot. That all equates to a lot of missed opportunities and yearning for something better. Well instead of that you'll have a world class rig, torque wrench, and a couple barrels that does everything you could ever want or dream of.

My .2 cents

Preach. This is the gospel.

 

[26Reload]

"My .2 cents"......
That's a full fwo bits......i fell asleep in the middle....
Ever hear of Readers Digest........

 

[Chase723]

He asked for advice. Hopefully he'd rather hear/ something more meaningful and specific than "Buy an accurate rifle. Buy a good scope. Get a good rangefinder. Reload. Shoot a lot." That's fine and all but the amount of information out there on all of those things is inordinate.

 

[TX Badger]

He asked for advice. Hopefully he'd rather hear/ something more meaningful and specific than "Buy an accurate rifle. Buy a good scope. Get a good rangefinder. Reload. Shoot a lot." That's fine and all but the amount of information out there on all of those things is inordinate.

Thought you were pretty concise considering the complexity of the question.

 

[26Reload]

Just wanted to give you hell..while i am sick with the crud.....
That's why i fell asleep.....the drugs.....

 

[LanceK]

Some might disagree with the advice I'm about to give you, but knowing what I know now through personal experience it will save you several thousands of dollars in the long run once you start this endeavor. Make no mistake, it's definitely an investment up front, but the set up you will have in the end will be comprised of the highest quality components in the industry and will be modular.

If I were to start from scratch again what I would do is first start with a custom long action. There are several to choose from, but personally I'd pick one with a 60 deg bolt throw (because I like that) and a replaceable bolt face. Again the concept for the system is modular. If you use a long action you can still run many short action cartridges in it with long, high BC bullets seated how they're supposed to be seated. A simple bolt face swap and you're in business for almost anything. You could buy both a long and short but that doubles your cost...Or if you don't plan on shooting a long action cartridge then just buy a short action.

Next send it off to a reputable gunsmith to turn it into a simple switch barrel rig where you have flats for like an 11/16" crows foot on a torque wrench machined on the front, behind the muzzle threads, so you can screw the barrel on and off from the front with a torque wrench. Ask them to set it up to headspace at 40 or so ft/lbs and have it shoulder directly onto the action. The use of a ARC Barloc device or WTO switch lug isn't necessary. Two examples of Gunsmiths who will do this are Harrels Precision and LRI. Benchmark might but I don't know for sure. Obviously, use a custom barrel. The difference between a factory barrel and a custom barrel is exponentially different. I don't shoot 3 shots and call it good. I shoot 50-200 rounds. My custom barrels POI never changes. Doesn't matter if you use cut rifled or button. I have both types and they all are hammers.

Put a picatinny rail on top.

Put a custom trigger in it. I prefer TriggerTech but there are a bunch to choose from.

Get a chassis (I have an MPA BA Lite because I like the weight and its intrinsic features) or something like a Manners EH series with a mini chassis. No need to bed either one. Also having a detachable magazine is nice for some stuff and not as nice in other situations (I.e. hunting because it can get hung up) but that is a personal choice. I personally just use a smaller magazine when hunting and it doesn't get hung up. Carbon fiber definitely is warmer than aluminum in cold weather, but a skid pad on a chassis also takes care of that issue.

Obviously get a bipod that you can attach to whatever chassis or stock you buy. Mine is a Harris (there's others that are great and different) on an ADM QD picatinny mount, so it snaps on and off quickly and can be switched between rifles in only a couple seconds.

I'd also recommend a sling with qd attachments that plug into flush cups. That way you can buy 1 good sling and use it on multiple rifles, and again it only takes a few seconds to put on and take off.

Also buy (or make) and start shooting with a rear bag, and learn to load your bipod. You'll be stable enough to shoot 1/3-1/2 MOA no prob.

Put excellent, FFP, essentially 100% repeatable, glass on it. There are several choices out there (PRB has done some excellent testing and reviews). Just know that more expensive doesn't necessarily equate to better/way better. Plan to spend between $1500-3500 on glass. Doesn't matter if it's MOA or Mil, just make sure the reticle matches the adjustments. I run Steiner T5Xis because they have everything I want at a price that is relatively reasonable, they're made in America, they're built to withstand anything, and if something were to happen to them their customer service is excellent. I personally like the H59 reticle but I also run the SCR and it's just fine.

Put your glass in a repeatable qd mount. I use one from LaRue. There are other options but theirs return to zero 100% of the time.

Buy the highest quality laser range finder you can afford that can reliably range soft targets beyond 1000 yards. The reason I say 1000 is because you'll realize that once you're set up 500 is a cake walk, and you'll want to take it out further any chance you get. That said, you can't hit anything if you don't know how far away it is and when you get beyond 400 yards you need to start to be extremely exact because at extended distances your drop data can change drastically with small changes in distance. Currently there are a couple options that incorporate both a range finder as well as a ballistic computer. Personally as soon as I can afford it I'm going to buy the Gunwerks BR2500 because it is field expedient (meaning I can adjust the ballistics software in the field) and can store data for 5 rifles. Another excellent option is the Leica HD B2200 or 3000. Not field expedient in the same way (software has to be changed at home and only stores data for 1 rifle at a time) but once set up is ultra fast with exceptional glass and is a 10x bino.

Invest in and get good at reloading, that's a whole other topic, but strive for a load with an ES of less than 30 and an SD of less than 15 and it'll treat you well wayyyyy out there.

What you'll have now is a rifle system that likely costs somewhere between $5000 and $6500 to build and is completely modular, reliable in all conditions, will be an absolute hammer, and comprised of the best components available. I can guarantee you that if you miss it'll be because of you. You should expect that you'll be able to take the whole thing apart (take your scope and barrel off, take it out of the chassis, etc) and put it back together and your zero should still be the same. You will be able to switch barrels in the field with a simple torque wrench. Furthermore, your gunsmith can save the specs on your barrels so they can simply chamber one for you and ship it to your house (no need to send them your action) and you just torque it on, put in the right bolt face, load and shoot. Takes like 5 minutes.

Finally every time from there on out that you want to change cartridges, rebarrel, or whatever it is $650 for a new custom barrel instead of $3500-$5000 for another rifle, and again you never have to send your barreled action back, and you never have to rebuy scopes, mounts, stocks, etc. For perspective, how many people do you know who have 6 or 7 $800 rifles none of which are ideal, not to mention the glass on them is simply less than stellar and incapable of performing reliably forever (maybe not even ever), their range finder can't reliably range a target beyond 4 or 500 yards and it takes 2-5 minutes to determine the appropriate correction to make the shot. That all equates to a lot of missed opportunities and yearning for something better. Well, instead of that, for the same money you'll have a world class rig, torque wrench, and a couple barrels that does everything you could ever want or dream of.

My .2 cents

Thanks! What great advice, I'm going to read that one a couple times!