chickm1
Well-Known Member
I use 23 grains IMR 4064 behind an 80 gr Sierra Match King. That is a max load, and it is too long to fit the magazine. There is a 77 gr bullet made from Hornady, that will fit in the magazine well.
Trying to get my .223 to shoot
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johnlittletree
Well-Known Member
What have you done to trouble shoot so far? Have you checked the chamber and throat? Have you checked out the inside of the barrel? How confident are you about the bottom metal? Torque on bottom metal? Any movement of the action in the stock or points of contact?
After that I would say to change one thing at a time. So since you have 8lbs. of powder start with the bullet weight and shape. I would not invest in a bulk buy up front. I would get one little tub of 55grFMJBT's because they are cheap especially from say Sierra. Work up a load start at 100m and work up. Then once we know it is not the barrel, stock, machine work, bottom metal etc....Buy another small bag or plastic tub of 62gr. etc....And work you way up. Something is not right and until you figure out what that is do not buy bulk anything. If a 5.56 NATO or .223 does not shoot with your current bullet and can not be made to shoot with the 55 and 62 grain projectiles it is definitely gun not so much powder, primer, brass etc....I am assuming all your brass is with in SAAMI specifications? I am also assuming you have already covered the basics like case prep, OAL, neck tension etc.....
Also never start with VLD or Hybrids on a new gun. Tuning a new gun can be a royal pain sometimes and breaking with convention and going with extreme anything is seldom the best way to start. In fact when I get a new rifle built I always use factory ammo if the chamber SAAMI if it is SAMMI MIN I usually try factory ammo and turn to hand loads but only my competition guns use non-SAAMI chambers. Nice hand loads can hide problems in a gun but fairly cheap factory ammo not Gold Medal stuff shows any flaws real fast. Before you even get the bore scope out! Layout dye like Dykem can be a good partner in finding points of contact we do not want in a stock! I have heard of guys using magic markers or smudging but I have never had any luck with that.
After that I would say to change one thing at a time. So since you have 8lbs. of powder start with the bullet weight and shape. I would not invest in a bulk buy up front. I would get one little tub of 55grFMJBT's because they are cheap especially from say Sierra. Work up a load start at 100m and work up. Then once we know it is not the barrel, stock, machine work, bottom metal etc....Buy another small bag or plastic tub of 62gr. etc....And work you way up. Something is not right and until you figure out what that is do not buy bulk anything. If a 5.56 NATO or .223 does not shoot with your current bullet and can not be made to shoot with the 55 and 62 grain projectiles it is definitely gun not so much powder, primer, brass etc....I am assuming all your brass is with in SAAMI specifications? I am also assuming you have already covered the basics like case prep, OAL, neck tension etc.....
Also never start with VLD or Hybrids on a new gun. Tuning a new gun can be a royal pain sometimes and breaking with convention and going with extreme anything is seldom the best way to start. In fact when I get a new rifle built I always use factory ammo if the chamber SAAMI if it is SAMMI MIN I usually try factory ammo and turn to hand loads but only my competition guns use non-SAAMI chambers. Nice hand loads can hide problems in a gun but fairly cheap factory ammo not Gold Medal stuff shows any flaws real fast. Before you even get the bore scope out! Layout dye like Dykem can be a good partner in finding points of contact we do not want in a stock! I have heard of guys using magic markers or smudging but I have never had any luck with that.
Uboatrobert
Active Member
I am using a Bushmaster w/24" SS 1-9 twist barrel, loaded with H-335, Sierra 52BT bullets, WSR, OAL @ 2.255", with mixed brass, and Custom 1 1/4# trigger The powder is dirty, but is not subject to heat, and shoots into .41 @ 100 5 shot groups. This is my go to PD load. I also have a build up AR w/20" SS 8 twist w/Custom 2 1/2# trigger I will be working on w/CFE223 powder, soon. The New Nosler load book has tons of info....get 1 and use it.
ericbc7
Well-Known Member
It may be that you will benefit from a full OCW (optimum charge weight) work up. A lower velocity node may be the sweet spot for that combination of bullet and powder.
Good luck! it sounds like you have chosen quality parts for you build.
Good luck! it sounds like you have chosen quality parts for you build.
Buzzsaw
Well-Known Member
its got to be your gun as stated above, I too have a 20" LTR 5R, had it bedded, Jewell Trigger added, trued, Cerakoted, and some other work by Karl Kampfeld.
Rememnber TWIST RATE
OAL is limited to magazine length unless you want to sing load. Again my best groups are shot with 24gr Varget, Sierra Match Kings both pen tip and Tipped, Nosler RDF 70grand 70gr Bergers.
Rememnber TWIST RATE
OAL is limited to magazine length unless you want to sing load. Again my best groups are shot with 24gr Varget, Sierra Match Kings both pen tip and Tipped, Nosler RDF 70grand 70gr Bergers.
chromatica
Member
In registration forms for a recent wind calling clinic, suggestions were made for bullets for handloaders. In .223, Sierra 77s were specifically discouraged.
Problem as I see it is the barrel twist of 1:8. For heavier bullets you should have gone 1:7
ncwg2boatguy
Well-Known Member
Shooters pro shop has the 70gr RDF Noslers on sale for 99$ for 500. reg 149$ They run great in my 1-8 twist T3 Tactical. Sub MOA at 600 all day.
tbran
Well-Known Member
I have 2 factory bolt action rifles chambered in .223. A Tikka T3 and a Kimber, Montana. They both shoot well with Federal Gold Medal Sierra Match King with a 69 grain bullet.
My best group of 0.175" using Berger 70gr VLD, 8208-XBR 22.0 grs, giving 2674 fps.
Next 0.310" with Ramshot TAC 23.0 grs, giving 2784 fps.
0.316" group 69 SMK, Varget 24.5 grs, 2839 fps.
Velocity load Viht N540 26.0 grs, produced 3104 fps and a 0.436" group.
26" Brux 1:9 neck size -0.002" press fit with Lapua Brass
Blueprinted by Jim See, Elite Accuracy for Bill Nieman
Hope this helps.
Next 0.310" with Ramshot TAC 23.0 grs, giving 2784 fps.
0.316" group 69 SMK, Varget 24.5 grs, 2839 fps.
Velocity load Viht N540 26.0 grs, produced 3104 fps and a 0.436" group.
26" Brux 1:9 neck size -0.002" press fit with Lapua Brass
Blueprinted by Jim See, Elite Accuracy for Bill Nieman
Hope this helps.
RegionRat
Well-Known Member
If the rig is brand new, I would also double check the twist rate to make sure it was not mislabeled by accident. It really sounds like it should group better.
I might recommend you keep some BlackHills 77 OTM ammo handy. It can be used as a reference ammo to troubleshoot and debug. This rig should shoot 77 SMK just fine, but 80's might not like that 1:8 twist.
Most service rifles are migrated to 1:7 and use 77 SMK for the short lines and 80 SMK single fed for the 600 yard line. There are many other variations on this theme, but the majority of the rigs I see use something close to the above. The new rules allow scopes and as a result, I have seen my own White Oak upper groups as well as several friend's rigs shot from the bench with BH ammo and we can easily shoot less than 1 MOA and even better with tuned hand loads with 10 shot groups. (The only problem this presents is making excuses later on... ).
The point is, a service rifle is a fairly standardized item these days and bbls from the better shops are shooting very well with standard ammo in 77 grain. A bolt gun with a decent bbl should be able to shoot as well or better with tuned loads, or there is something wrong. Your >1MOA goal isn't out of line and I am hoping you can find the issue.
The NJ Highpopwer club web site has a tab called Reloading Stuph. You will see many SR loads on that site with several bullet weights and powders.
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm
Your Varget powder as well as several other good ones are shown with good bullet combinations.
Good Luck with the debug.
I might recommend you keep some BlackHills 77 OTM ammo handy. It can be used as a reference ammo to troubleshoot and debug. This rig should shoot 77 SMK just fine, but 80's might not like that 1:8 twist.
Most service rifles are migrated to 1:7 and use 77 SMK for the short lines and 80 SMK single fed for the 600 yard line. There are many other variations on this theme, but the majority of the rigs I see use something close to the above. The new rules allow scopes and as a result, I have seen my own White Oak upper groups as well as several friend's rigs shot from the bench with BH ammo and we can easily shoot less than 1 MOA and even better with tuned hand loads with 10 shot groups. (The only problem this presents is making excuses later on... ).
The point is, a service rifle is a fairly standardized item these days and bbls from the better shops are shooting very well with standard ammo in 77 grain. A bolt gun with a decent bbl should be able to shoot as well or better with tuned loads, or there is something wrong. Your >1MOA goal isn't out of line and I am hoping you can find the issue.
The NJ Highpopwer club web site has a tab called Reloading Stuph. You will see many SR loads on that site with several bullet weights and powders.
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm
Your Varget powder as well as several other good ones are shown with good bullet combinations.
Good Luck with the debug.
hunter0528
Well-Known Member
What are you using for primers. I've had very consistent results when I switched to the Match Federal or CCI Bench match
Konrad
Well-Known Member
I know this is going to sound like a silly question but: Did you start out with the ogive(s) .020 off the lands? I purchased the Hornady OAL gauge and Comparator. These two tools allow precise calculations regarding bullet jump to the leads of the rifling. I have found that changing this dimension can sometimes result in dramatic accuracy changes much greater than simple changes of powder or increments therein.
I have also found poor bedding/scope mounting to be bugaboos that will make hair fall out in great heaps!
