Trying to get my .223 to shoot

[ScottH]

sounds like a great Varget load ScottH

Mine didn't like Varget as well.

 

[rcar112]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

I've had the overall best luck with Varget and 69gr Sierra green tips with a 1:9. I've tried about every powder mentioned in all these replies - I fought the consences to use Varget at every TURN! XBR, CFE, Benchmark etc. I USE VARGET now. Now sure of your success to 600 without going to the heavies. I've used Sierra Match 90s but you will have to slow them down. I have a fairly good load with 77s. I think to have success at 600 with 223, you need the complete bullet. Not sure it's the powder.

 

[bowhunthard88]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but... Have you tried different overall lengths? My one rifle/bullet prefers the overall length to be between 0.120-0.140" from the rifling to the ogive! That's way further than I usually would have ever tested, except for the fact that I read an article on testing Berger bullets that is posted on here somewhere (this was a while ago). That being said: I usually pick a bullet, test for optimal col with a preferred powder, and then if I haven't found good accuracy (it's never "good enough" lol) I will test different powders for the best accuracy/ES/SD combination.

Good luck!

 

[LDHunter]

IMO Varget is the perfect 223 powder and the 69gr SMK is the perfect bullet for accuracy from an 8 or 9 twist barrel and your velocity ranges are good.

I know you had a custom rifle made that should shoot but if you haven't had a very careful bedding done even if you have aluminum bedding blocks then you're wasting your time trying to get 1/2" or smaller groups at 100 yds even with a 223.

If it's been bedded then have another gunsmith check the bedding. Sounds like either a bedding or scope problem.

I have a 223 700 LTR I bought used here that shoots 1/4" groups fairly often and rarely over 1/2" groups but it was skim bedded on TOP of the aluminum bedding blocks. IMPORTANT!!! Bedding is critical! Without very good bedding very few rifles will shoot consistently much under an inch.

 

[jes10x1]

I had shot service rifle competition for several years. I found Accurate 2260 worked great at 600 with the 75 Amax and 75 hpbt. I never reset my powder measure. Left it at 22.3 grains. Ball meters wonderfully! You could be pushing the velocity it a little hard. My gunsmith suggested that velocities should be around 2750. I think most any of the powders mentioned should give you 1/2 minute.With the right Bullet and velocity. Experiment!

 

[ArtC]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

I had good luck with cfe223 CCI 400 55 grain nosler

I've been shooting 223 competition with a 24: super bull DPMS for 16yrs (over 9000) rounds using 23 1/2 grs at 100yds and 24 1/2 at 600 w/69grs. MAX load for the 80 gr is 2600fps you are way too fast. I shot a 194 benchrest target w 1/2 moa 10 ring just last week and then shot only five rounds for a group .466 (Have pics) I have not changed my load in 16YRS. ART

 

[ArtC]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

OPPS I use Varget. forgot to tell ya. ART

 

[Mudduck]

Sounds like a great platform you have built. I used to have a sub MOA 1000 yd mouse gun - a 223 that was set up for 90 gr Berger VLDs, Lapua brass and I used Varget exclusively. It had a match chamber for the Berger VLDs but I still had to play around with seating depth. Once I got the seating depth correct it had pinpoint accuracy. I would try different bullets and seating depth ... The reason I liked Varget is that I found it was not as temp sensitive as some others

 

[Lpart]

Thank you all. I have some 69 gr Sierras on order and will those this week. I am going to test seating depth first and various loads of Varget, CFE223 and H 4895.

 

[Morrison]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

I can agree with changing the bullet to something you know works first. I think you can be safe with the 69 grn Sierra MK. I never had a great deal of luck with Varget and I put my 223 together with the 69 MK and the 69 Nosler Comp bullets on top of RL15. There are newer powders out there that seem top be better suited to solid bullets and temp extremes. I don't have anything with a 1in8 twist but I have 1in9 and 1in7 and the 69's work well for me. The 80 grain stuff is too long for my AR's to feed from a Mag so they are shot 1 at a time through the side port and only at the 600 yard targets. I will suggest that you check at the NRA and Camp Pendleton High Power Competition sites as the load that you are suggesting is common for their long range shooting. They will have a lot of practical experience with what you are looking for.

 

[Susquatch]

Please do not take offense, none is intended here. Any rifle will only shoot as well as its weakest link no matter how much you spend on all the components. 9 times out of 10, I find the weakest link is the shooter, not the rifle, the scope, the load, or even the conditions. Sometimes I even find that even a really good shooter cannot shoot a particular rifle very well. Before I spent a lot of time and effort on loads and other variables, I would find a good consistent 1/4 MOA shooter and let them try your rifle. Even if you can shoot that well yourself, it helps to have a known comparison to validate your own efforts.


Also, you didn't mention bedding. In my opinion, even the very best aftermarket stock for the 700 will benefit from a good bedding job. You can find the odd one that doesn't need it, but they are far and few behind.

My own 223 was a shooter right out of the box. It is a sub 1/2 MOA rifle no matter what load you feed it including factory ammo. It is a 1/4 MOA rifle with tuned loads. My best group with it is 0.07" and it usually puts 4 out of 5 shots under 0.1 I haven't touched that rifle in any way - if it ain't broke don't fix it!

However, most of my 700s have needed work. I've put new barrels, triggers, and trued the actions on most of them. This usually takes them from over an inch to under 1/2 inch. I am a machinist, so I do all my own gunsmithing.

One of the things I am finding on most new 700s is that the bolts are sloppy. While this is good for reliable feeding, it sucks for accuracy. You might consider having your smith install a new bolt from PTG. They are available in half thou increments of diameter to precision fit your bolt raceway. This also solves the bolt timing issues I see on the vast majority of 700 rifles I see today. 7 out of 7 model 700 rifles I looked at were out of time on my last trip to a gun store.

As another poster has suggested, start with Sierra's accuracy loads and if that does not show any clustering, then I'd test your gun with another shooter, check for loose or improperly torqued screws, bedding, swapping in another scope, recrowning, and maybe a new bolt.

Those are my thoughts. Again, I don't mean to offend. Just feeling your pain and trying to help.

 

[Chuck32571]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

I use 24.5 grains of IMR4895 w/Sierra 69 grain bullets. No matter how careful you are, the short neck of the 223 will cause Concentricity problems with your finished product. I use the Hornady Concentricity gauge tool and correct it within the .003 they recommend. Most of the time I get it within .001 which produces 1/2 MOA groups or better all day long. Would also recommend you check your cartridge lengths to sit within .001 of the leads with your bolt action to prevent excess jump which kills accuracy.

 

[thomasbangs]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

I have had very good luck with powder WC 844, this is a surplus military powder that is the equivalent of H 335. I have used this in service rifle competition out to 600 yds. with 24 grs. behind a 75 gr. Hornady 75 gr. HPBT Match seated out to single load only in a AR 15 with a 20" Bushmaster barrel and Jewell trigger. This load will hold the 9 and 10 ring at 600 from a sling shooting prone, it will also shoot moa at 100 yds. from the bench, for magazine function, I reduce load by 1 gr. to seat bullet deeper. You should not have a seating problem with a bolt gun. I also have a varmint AR with a 20" Shaw stainless bull barrel and a Timney trigger, this will shoot 5 different bullets under a inch at 100 yds. with this WC 844 powder with various loads (23 to 26 grs.) including the 24 gr. load behind the 75 gr. Hornady HPBT Match. My hunting load for this .223 is 23 gr. of WC 844 behind a 60 gr. Hornady V-Max, Win. small rifle primers, Win. military or LC brass, seated for magazine function it will consistently shoot under 1 inch from the bench with best 5 shot group measuring .556. I layed in lots of the WC 844 when it was available, if you can't find any of this, try a lb. of H 335, hope this helps. Just thought I would add, the service rifle with a Bushmaster barrel has a 1-9 twist, the Shaw barrel has a 1-8 twist, velocity out of the 1-9 twist 20' Bushmaster barrel with the Hornady 75 gr. HPBT in front of 24 grs. of WC 844 seated for single load only is 2826 fps with a ES of 35 fps.

 

[CanardNoir]

I decided I wanted a .223 for my practice rifle as it is relatively expensive to shoot. Want to use to 600 yards with heavier bullets. I had a rifle built for this. Trued Rem 700, 1-8 Brux barrel #3 26", Greybull Precision stock, timney trigger and bottom metal from Legacy Sports. I was told to look no further than Varget for powder so I bought 8lbs. Working with 80 gr Amax and 77 gr Sierra HPBT. Working best with 24 to 25 gr of Varget but will not even shoot to 1 moa so far, 112 rounds down the tube and I am getting frustrated. Mag length is not issue as I have to 2.8" there. Does anybody have some new ideas for me? Powders or bullets or any little tricks. I thought this would be a 1/2 minute with not problem.

In my 50-years of shooting rifles - the smaller calibers have always required the most "breaking in" (especially the higher velocity .22-250s) compared to the 6.5mm-up drillings. I'm saying 3-500 rounds minimum coupled with the 'Speedy' Gonzales protocol & formulations for shooting-n-cleaning break-in
(https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13001 ).

And for me, the reloading recipes (powder type + loading table weight + a given projectile) have never been right on target - a couple of tenths-of-a-grain more; or even a different powder for a desired projectile, have always been the key to my finding the true "sweet spot". Subsequently, the chronograph is never needed, until after the fact...accuracy first.

Then sometimes the basic, older reloading manuals can provide the best foundations. I've always benchmarked the .22 cal loadings with lighter charges 4895 behind the desired 50-70 gr. projectiles. Then build your accuracy pyramid from that...

Even the factory .17 cal. HMRs have shot better after several hundred rounds.