trouble with case stretch

[tomestone]

I :am having trouble with case stretch with my 25-06 Ruger Mark 11 target rifle I;am loading 45 gr. IMR 4320 hornady 117 gr.sst for coyotes. Both winchester and reminton brass once fired .005 stretch reseize to .006 to.0065 over lenght. My 5 shot group is one, half in, hole at 100 yards. I went to Nosler brass at 52grs.IMR 4350 117gr.sst have no case stretch but back to one in. group. Can any one help me with this load? Thanks

 

[diriel]

As you shoot, brass will of course stretch. Some more than others as you are finding out. One kind of off the wall thing you might consider is having your 25-06 re-reamed into an AI version. Most AI's have considerably less brass flow. One of the perks to owning an AI.

Otherwise, just trim to minimum, and keep checking it.

Gary

 

[Rev.]

You will find that with some cases, they will streach more than others & the hotter the load the more streach you will get. I always chech the case length after it's fired & always trim to length.

 

[B23]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but why don't you resize for no shoulder bump till your brass gets snuggish to close on the bolt then adjust your FL sie die to bump the shoulder back 2thou or whatever it takes to chamber freely??? If you're siezing and pushing the shoulder back before you know how far "to long" is aren't you just oversizing your brass which could give you false readings and worse yet case/head seperation.

 

[tomestone]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but why don't you resize for no shoulder bump till your brass gets snuggish to close on the bolt then adjust your FL sie die to bump the shoulder back 2thou or whatever it takes to chamber freely??? If you're siezing and pushing the shoulder back before you know how far "to long" is aren't you just oversizing your brass which could give you false readings and worse yet case/head seperation.

yes I agree I:am going to have a case/head seperation problem it happen to me before in 30-06 cal. Needed a gun smith to get the bass out of the chamber two days before I was going moose hunting.(never again) I:am going to push the shoulder back instead of trimming. Thanks

 

[tomestone]

As you shoot, brass will of course stretch. Some more than others as you are finding out. One kind of off the wall thing you might consider is having your 25-06 re-reamed into an AI version. Most AI's have considerably less brass flow. One of the perks to owning an AI.

Otherwise, just trim to minimum, and keep checking it.

Gary

Hello Gary I read about the AI somewhere could of been on this web site,lightbulb my reload books Hornady ect. no listing where can I find out more info what are you shooting ? grs. of bullets, effective distance on coyote size targets,brass,ect

 

[diriel]

My buddy actually owns (2) 25's, one of them a garden variety Ruger, the other a Marlin xl with a 25-06 AI barrel on it. He went with a Shilen 26" long - 9" Twist.

One of the bullets he likes is the 115gr Berger vld. The other is the Barnes 115gr TSX. The TSX is longer than the Berger, and unlike the Berger it is not considered "Stable" down to (-40 F.) @ 0 ASL, /shudder. The TSX in a 9" twist is "only" considered stable down to about (-10 F.) @ 0 ASL. "Hey, if you are going to say *STABLE* then that has to mean stable under any conceivable condition you may hunt." <-- (my friend John) My friend is a verified hunting Nut-Case! He spec'd out the 9" twist because he did not for-see himself hunting at less than (-10 F.) @ 0 ASL. Now if you go up to say 3000 ASL then you can go down in temp to about (-40 F.) again .... heh...yeah i'm thinking do Whaaa? Then again I know some folks are certified nut-cases just like my friend is! He has hunted the Alaska low lands a couple times, but more often he hunts between 3000-8000 ASL here in the lower 48.

So, for him, the 9" twist made a lot of sense. Did We/He over think it a bit? Perhaps. Then again, he is the one person I have ever Taught Reloading to, specifically because of his attention to detail. He is a very serious minded individual when it comes to anything related to hunting.

Powder wise, he went with H1000. He only uses those 2 heavy bullets, so for him H1000 was a slam dunk. He uses mainly Win LR primers, and standard Rem. I believe, though I know he does have some nickel Rem. brass as well. The H1000 is very temp stable, and with the right bullet/brass/primer combinations truly easy to load with. I do not have his load data of course, but that really don't matter as it is best to work up anyhow. For his AI I know he started 1.5gr. below Hodgdon max for the 117 for the Berger's, not sure where he started for the Barnes, but I would suspect pretty close to the same. Always Use Caution!! Start Low and Work UP!

Gary
P.S. I have seen him take a coyote at about 750ish with one shot at one of his favorite shooting spots.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I :am having trouble with case stretch with my 25-06 Ruger Mark 11 target rifle I;am loading 45 gr. IMR 4320 hornady 117 gr.sst for coyotes. Both winchester and reminton brass once fired .005 stretch reseize to .006 to.0065 over lenght. My 5 shot group is one, half in, hole at 100 yards. I went to Nosler brass at 52grs.IMR 4350 117gr.sst have no case stretch but back to one in. group. Can any one help me with this load? Thanks

Food for thought:
If your 4320 is of a current powder lot (not fifteen or twenty years old) it maybe much hotter than the old stuff. Looking at a couple of older manuals I saw 45 grains as a max load (117 bullet @ 2900 fps).Yet in the Speer manual they are showing around 41 grains for a 120 grain bullet (seems a little weak to me), and Hogdons shows 43 grains for 2839fps. I think I'd back off about one grain of powder and shoot a dozen rounds to see if that helps any. If the groups get worse, then I think it's time for another powder combo. I think 3100 might have been the ticket (nice dense loads with a mag primer), but it's out of production now. Another one that I think might be even better would be the new MagPro. This should really fill the case up, and it was designed for big overbore cases. I think I'd hunt up a can of MagPro and 4831SC, and start all over
gary

 

[tomestone]

Food for thought:
If your 4320 is of a current powder lot (not fifteen or twenty years old) it maybe much hotter than the old stuff. Looking at a couple of older manuals I saw 45 grains as a max load (117 bullet @ 2900 fps).Yet in the Speer manual they are showing around 41 grains for a 120 grain bullet (seems a little weak to me), and Hogdons shows 43 grains for 2839fps. I think I'd back off about one grain of powder and shoot a dozen rounds to see if that helps any. If the groups get worse, then I think it's time for another powder combo. I think 3100 might have been the ticket (nice dense loads with a mag primer), but it's out of production now. Another one that I think might be even better would be the new MagPro. This should really fill the case up, and it was designed for big overbore cases. I think I'd hunt up a can of MagPro and 4831SC, and start all over
gary

Hello Gary I went to LRH magazine and read 25-06 and 25-06 improved no one is using 4320 powder in this cal.When I went to the city to buy a target rifle to shoot coyotes at a quarter mile and to load it with 4320. My 243 hunting rifle could:nt reach them, the saleman told me I needed a 25-06 I took it home 3 months ago, by luck I found LRH magazine, the ownly thing I find common between hunting rifles and target rifles is the bolt handle. I"am going to take your advice put the 15 year old 10 lb keg of 4320 back on the shelf and start again.Thank-you very much for all your help

 

[diriel]

Honestly I would avoid MagPro, but the H4831sc is absolutely good to go. For heavy bullets, H1000 is also real hard to beat. I find that Winchester LR primers do just about the best job yet in 25-06.

Have a good one

 

[tomestone]

My buddy actually owns (2) 25's, one of them a garden variety Ruger, the other a Marlin xl with a 25-06 AI barrel on it. He went with a Shilen 26" long - 9" Twist.

One of the bullets he likes is the 115gr Berger vld. The other is the Barnes 115gr TSX. The TSX is longer than the Berger, and unlike the Berger it is not considered "Stable" down to (-40 F.) @ 0 ASL, /shudder. The TSX in a 9" twist is "only" considered stable down to about (-10 F.) @ 0 ASL. "Hey, if you are going to say *STABLE* then that has to mean stable under any conceivable condition you may hunt." <-- (my friend John) My friend is a verified hunting Nut-Case! He spec'd out the 9" twist because he did not for-see himself hunting at less than (-10 F.) @ 0 ASL. Now if you go up to say 3000 ASL then you can go down in temp to about (-40 F.) again .... heh...yeah i'm thinking do Whaaa? Then again I know some folks are certified nut-cases just like my friend is! He has hunted the Alaska low lands a couple times, but more often he hunts between 3000-8000 ASL here in the lower 48.

So, for him, the 9" twist made a lot of sense. Did We/He over think it a bit? Perhaps. Then again, he is the one person I have ever Taught Reloading to, specifically because of his attention to detail. He is a very serious minded individual when it comes to anything related to hunting.

Powder wise, he went with H1000. He only uses those 2 heavy bullets, so for him H1000 was a slam dunk. He uses mainly Win LR primers, and standard Rem. I believe, though I know he does have some nickel Rem. brass as well. The H1000 is very temp stable, and with the right bullet/brass/primer combinations truly easy to load with. I do not have his load data of course, but that really don't matter as it is best to work up anyhow. For his AI I know he started 1.5gr. below Hodgdon max for the 117 for the Berger's, not sure where he started for the Barnes, but I would suspect pretty close to the same. Always Use Caution!! Start Low and Work UP!

Gary
P.S. I have seen him take a coyote at about 750ish with one shot at one of his favorite shooting spots.

Hello Gary thanks for all the info, 750 yds good for John he would be my friend too. I need to reevaluate my position starting with a press prep. 4320 is no.100 on the relative burn rate chart H1000 is no.133 I:am not even close to the ball park. The temp. here in Jan. is around 0 to-20F lite breeze -30 to -40 is common. H1000 sounds good to me. The next time I go to the candy store I:am going to take a mic. and measure some bullet lengths if they let me. I need to take a look at some Barnes bullets. Brad

 

[Trickymissfit]

Hello Gary I went to LRH magazine and read 25-06 and 25-06 improved no one is using 4320 powder in this cal.When I went to the city to buy a target rifle to shoot coyotes at a quarter mile and to load it with 4320. My 243 hunting rifle could:nt reach them, the saleman told me I needed a 25-06 I took it home 3 months ago, by luck I found LRH magazine, the ownly thing I find common between hunting rifles and target rifles is the bolt handle. I"am going to take your advice put the 15 year old 10 lb keg of 4320 back on the shelf and start again.Thank-you very much for all your help

my brother and I did the 25-06 a few years back, but we shot lighter bullets most of the time. We used lots of 4350 and 4831 powder, but looking back I now thing we should have tried the 3100 and a couple others. Still it's really hard to go wrong with a can of 4350. Too bad we're not close by, cause I'd have you bring your dies over and we'd try a little bit of everything on my shelf. Right now the MagPro powder interests me the most, but as I've said before 3100 seems to always work well. Another point of interest here is that with H4350, IMR4350, and AA4350, is that all seem to have a little different burn rates. AA4350 is faster than IMR 4350, and H4350 is slower than IMR 4350. I think I'd try 50 grains of AA4350, and work my way up to 52 or 53 grains. 54 grains of 3100 is a max load in the book, but it seems a little light weight for a max load (it is a compressed load, so that maybe why). Right now as I see it, all roads point to 4350.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Honestly I would avoid MagPro, but the H4831sc is absolutely good to go. For heavy bullets, H1000 is also real hard to beat. I find that Winchester LR primers do just about the best job yet in 25-06.

Have a good one

They are really just getting into load development for MagPro. On paper it looks like it might be a good one. It's listed as a loading for the 120 grain bullet, and comes in slightly faster(velocity) than 3100. And 3100 is very close to 4831. This powder was developed for over bore cases (like the WSM's), but seems to work well in the Weatherby cases as well as the 30-06 cases. I think it's worth the try.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Hello Gary thanks for all the info, 750 yds good for John he would be my friend too. I need to reevaluate my position starting with a press prep. 4320 is no.100 on the relative burn rate chart H1000 is no.133 I:am not even close to the ball park. The temp. here in Jan. is around 0 to-20F lite breeze -30 to -40 is common. H1000 sounds good to me. The next time I go to the candy store I:am going to take a mic. and measure some bullet lengths if they let me. I need to take a look at some Barnes bullets. Brad

I shoot lots of H1000 in my 6/250AI, but it seems like it might be a touch too fast for that long case (I could be wrong as usual). Myself I'd be looking at 4350 or 3100 if I could find it. Magpro looks really good with heavy bullets (115 &120 grain). RL22 looks good as well, but kinda wonder if RL 25 might be a touch better.
gary