To clean or not to clean?

[JDBraddy]

our 600 yard guys dont believe in cleaning and prefer to shoot a dirty barrel ! they will clean after about 500 rounds

Do your anonymous 600yd guys set any records? Win any national matches? What's their national ranking? If not, here's a good challenge for your guys, set ten standard orange domed clay pigeons out on the berm at 600yds, and let each of them take only ten rounds to the bench with him, record how many pigeons each of them is able break with no sighters and only one shot per target. They should be able to hit eight or more. Then decide if you think their regimen of cleaning every 500 rounds is adequate. If you don't have easy access to a 600yd range, you can try doing the same thing with Alka-Seltzer tablets at 200yds. Have fun, and good luck!

 

[Pdvdh]

Which bore scopes are good enough to clearly inspect rifle bore today. Does it still require the $900 Hawkeye? Or can I be miserly and go with a less expensive brand/model?
Wondering if other competing companies products are worth a hoot, and provide clear images of the bore surfaces...

 

[Barrelnut]

Which bore scopes are good enough to clearly inspect rifle bore today. Does it still require the $900 Hawkeye? Or can I be miserly and go with a less expensive brand/model?
Wondering if other competing companies products are worth a hoot, and provide clear images of the bore surfaces...

I use the Lyman and can easily see copper and carbon fouling, heat cracking, carbon rings, condition and deterioration of the lands, tooling marks, etc. Plus can take a screen shot of what I find and store it on my computer for comparison later. Doesn't have the resolution of a Hawkeye for sure, but I don't need that resolution.

 

[parshal]

I had a Lyman that broke. Luckily I'd bought it from Brownell's with a lifetime return policy. I returned it and bought a Hawkeye. The Hawkeye is far, far superior but the Lyman is more than adequate for determining a proper cleaning procedure.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Midway.USA has the Lyman borescope on sale right now for $176.86 part #266555
Heck of a deal, if you need one. After reading this thread, I think we all could use one.

 

[Pdvdh]

Lyman Borecam ordered. More money gone thanks to LRH Forum...

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have an honest question for the guys that dont clean "Until accuracy goes South". How do you know that your not going to find out your accuracy is degrading on that 700 yard shot at a trophy animal? That would be unlucky. I usually like to have a little more control over things that I can directly affect than "Guess I'll wait and see what happens".

I can answer this quite easily, no barrel that I shoot at long range is that fickle that ONE SHOT after a good one is going to go bad. It takes several shots for the group/accuracy to faulter.
In my game, F-Class Open with 264WM (600yrds & less) & 300WM (700yrds to 1000yrds) all of my barrels are custom cut rifled and hand lapped, fouling in the sense of a factory rifle is very different in my experience. Fouling of copper in my custom barrels takes a long time, and carbon is easy to remove.
Rough factory barrels make the cleaning process far harder and more chemicals are required to move the gunk, which requires harsh chemicals, aggressive scrubbing with brushes, which by the way I no longer use brass/bronze/stainless brushes, only a nylon brush is used in my barrels with Sweet's 7.62 to get the stuff foaming, then only loose and tight patches are used with jags.
I have hand lapped the majority of my factory rifle barrels, some have not needed this, like my Sako's and Kimber's. This has easily halved at least the required time and patches to get them clean once they need it.

One thing that is a definite, ALWAYS CLEAN A NEW BARREL PRIOR TO IT'S FIRST USE, NO MATTER WHO MADE IT.
I damaged a new barrel by not doing this, $1200 down the toilet.

Cheers.

 

[J E Custom]

Which bore scopes are good enough to clearly inspect rifle bore today. Does it still require the $900 Hawkeye? Or can I be miserly and go with a less expensive brand/model?
Wondering if other competing companies products are worth a hoot, and provide clear images of the bore surfaces...

I still have my Hawkeye but recently bought a Wi-Fi Endoscope for use at gun shows because it works with my I phone.

Just Google Wi-Fi endoscope and you will see plenty of them that will fit the type of phone that you have.

I suggest a minimum size camera and cable (5mm) and a 60o head on the camera for looking directly at the bore not down it for best results.

These things cost less than $100.00 dollars and can look into anything . I use mine for inspecting semi automatic pistols (Inside the action and magazine Plus the normal barrel inspection.

The flexible cable makes it very user friendly and can be set up on your desk or bench to look at cartouches and hard to read serial numbers just by holding the part under it. (It also magnifies).

I wouldn't take for my Hawkeye, but this is a very useful tool.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Pdvdh]

I still have my Hawkeye but recently bought a Wi-Fi Endoscope for use at gun shows because it works with my I phone.

I wouldn't take for my Hawkeye, but this is a very useful tool.

J E CUSTOM

Too late. Already ordered the Lyman Borecam. Gun and shooting supplies are the one area where I'm susceptible to impulsive purchases. I researched the Lyman for a short bit and then ordered. Always wanted to know what my bores looked like, before and after cleanings. Hope I'm not disappointed in their condition...

 

[Mike 338]

Factory barrels can be rough and pickup fouling like crazy. In terms of accuracy, you'll likely benifit from cleaning them every 30 rounds or so. A good hand lapped aftermarket barrel just doesn't collect crud the same way and may benifit from a little fouling. After break-in, you may go 150-200 rounds and clean it and it cleans up fast and easy, like it could have gone another 200.

 

[Pdvdh]

Received the Lyman Borecam and have examined 5 rifle barrels so far. All looked pretty good, except for one .308 cal melonited Krieger. Saw more than I cared to in that one. A lot of heat checking, even though there's not that many bullets through that bore. Another melonited 338 bore looked great.

I've been reading of too many disappointed owners of nitrided barrels, and I'm afraid I'm one more. It looks like minor heat checking, but way more and way further down the bore than other barrels with 3 times as many shots fired.

But back to the Lyman Borecam... I like it and can see plenty good enough with it. My bores looked good as far as carbon & copper fouling. But I'm now shopping for a replacement 9-twist .308 barrel. Gotta have been the nitride treatment. I haven't shot that rifle 250 times. Something went wrong with there.

 

[HARPERC]

.....Which bore scopes are good enough to clearly inspect rifle bore today. Does it still require the $900 Hawkeye? Or can I be miserly and go with a less expensive brand/model?........Wondering if other competing companies products are worth a hoot, and provide clear images of the bore surfaces...

Thanks! I was about to start a thread on this subject.

 

[Pdvdh]

I think it still a good idea. The Lyman Borecam is good enough I'd have purchased one earlier. Just didn't know about them until Barrelnut shared his experience. I'm a researcher, but there's only so much time in life for researching.

The Borecam has already cost me a barrel

But it's also saved me the cost for nitriding the replacement barrel, and the associated risk of another barrel life cut short due to nitriding. I'm just purchasing SS in the replacement barrel. Good enough corrosion resistance as is!

 

[Timeee123]

Purely my opinion. I have found I would get dialed to zero, then go home and clean it. I would go back to the range and I would be off again so I would re-dail and repeat. So I do one of two things.
1. For hunting season, dial it in, go hunt my seasons then clean it. I find it shoots the same for hunting as it did when I left the range
2. If I shoot go home and clean, When I go to the range again I will shoot 3 loads that didn't (load development I wasnt happy with) work for me or 3 round of cheap ammo, then it goes back to center

It is my understanding that shooting if oil is still in the bbl causes slippage and will shoot different

Probably better ways to do it but this works for me

Some rifles I have shoot better when the bbl is a little bit fouled.

Side note I read an article where they ran an experiment on it. The end of the article they recommended only cleaning every 250 to 300 rounds. I don't know if I buy that
But I do think people overclean.