To brake or not to brake

[PredatorSlayer]

PS, we can all agree that certain cases have inherent accuracy and recoil takes from that. If we can keep that inherent accuracy but reduce recoil, it can improve accuracy and shootability (if that's a word). To each their own.

Is inherent accuracy a real thing when we talk about cartridges? I think accuracy has less to do with the cartridge and more to do with the rifle itself. If you are implying people are more accurate with low recoiling cartridges, I would agree. Lots of shooters are more recoil sensitive than they like to admit. BTW - more people will develop a flinch from shooting a braked rifle than they will from recoil due to the noise or concussion, especially if they don't use ear protection or forget to put it in. We are programmed that way from birth to react to loud noises. Just watch a new born baby jump at a loud noise.

 

[FURMAN]

Ryan, Just because you make a statement doesnt mean its a fact. A brake isn't a rest. And you realize that benchrest takes place on flat ground? Your statement doesn't make any sense. By your logic, a 204 ruger with hardly any recoil should always have more precise impacts than a 6.5 creedmoor because the reticle displacement less when you fire? Come on man.

I will not continue to argue with you. If you do not understand/believe that reticle displacement upon firing changes poi we have nothing to discuss. Yes it is a fact. Do you believe it helps on a magnum? Is there a MAGIC threshold were physics no longer applies? You still did not answer my question about why they spend so much time making sure the rifle tracks straight. Don't bother though because like a said I will not do this back and forth arguing. A brake DOES serve the same purpose if you choose the correct brake.

As to your flat ground comment not making sense. I can't make it make sense to you and don't believe it doesn't. I think you are just trying to be difficult. The rests I speak of and the topic of brakes both aid in the rifle tracking straight back upon recoil. This the absolute most important part of rifle accuracy after the load itself. This is much easier to obtain on level ground but a great rest and/or good brake will still make it better. Get on uneven ground such as the case with most hunting shots and this becomes even more important. Good luck to the OP and future readers.

 

[FURMAN]

Is inherent accuracy a real thing when we talk about cartridges? I think accuracy has less to do with the cartridge and more to do with the rifle itself.

This is not true either. Why do you think the 6br and improved cartridges rule long range benchrest?????

I never shoot without plugs and no one should. Our hearing is not getting any better and we should protect it. I dont even notice the sound.

 

[Mram10us]

Is inherent accuracy a real thing when we talk about cartridges? I think accuracy has less to do with the cartridge and more to do with the rifle itself. If you are implying people are more accurate with low recoiling cartridges, I would agree. Lots of shooters are more recoil sensitive than they like to admit. BTW - more people will develop a flinch from shooting a braked rifle than they will from recoil due to the noise or concussion, especially if they don't use ear protection or forget to put it in. We are programmed that way from birth to react to loud noises. Just watch a new born baby jump at a loud noise.

The 300wsm and 284 cartridge are known for inherent accuracy which is why so many competitors use them. Very easy to load for. I don't have data supporting this that I can show, so I won't argue it. We both agree recoil is a variable that hinders accuracy. Brakes help with that and can keep you from getting dusted on prone desert shots. The noise does suck but ear plugs help. Again, it's all preference but the science is there

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I will not continue to argue with you. If you do not understand/believe that reticle displacement upon firing changes poi we have nothing to discuss. Yes it is a fact. Do you believe it helps on a magnum? Is there a MAGIC threshold were physics no longer applies? You still did not answer my question about why they spend so much time making sure the rifle tracks straight. Don't bother though because like a said I will not do this back and forth arguing. A brake DOES serve the same purpose if you choose the correct brake.

As to your flat ground comment not making sense. I can't make it make sense to you and don't believe it doesn't. I think you are just trying to be difficult. The rests I speak of and the topic of brakes both aid in the rifle tracking straight back upon recoil. This the absolute most important part of rifle accuracy after the load itself. This is much easier to obtain on level ground but a great rest and/or good brake will still make it better. Get on uneven ground such as the case with most hunting shots and this becomes even more important. Good luck to the OP and future readers.

Someone disagrees and you want to take your ball and go home? Managing the direction of recoil so that is comes straight back has more to do with form than it does the level of recoil generated. For example, how many people load their harris bipods when there is no need, or set up so they are torquing the reticle on target? Its form to properly manage the recoil. Left untouched a rifle with free recoil will always recoil straight back.

 

[Mram10us]

Someone disagrees and you want to take your ball and go home? Managing the direction of recoil so that is comes straight back has more to do with form than it does the level of recoil generated. For example, how many people load their harris bipods when there is no need, or set up so they are torquing the reticle on target? Its form to properly manage the recoil. Left untouched a rifle with free recoil, a rifle will always recoil straight back.

My friend Ross (precursor to muzzlebrakesandmore) made brakes for years and played with diameter of top holes. He found certain port and angles and top hole diameters that would keep the muzzle from jumping without too much that would have caused bounce. Obviously, no bottom ports or holes to cause more jump or dusting. A radial port is worthless and I would agree with you. A good port fixes many problems.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

This is not true either. Why do you think the 6br and improved cartridges rule long range benchrest?????

I never shoot without plugs and no one should. Our hearing is not getting any better and we should protect it. I dont even notice the sound.

This is not true either. Why do you think the 6br and improved cartridges rule long range benchrest?????

I never shoot without plugs and no one should. Our hearing is not getting any better and we should protect it. I dont even notice the sound.

This has been hashed out on many different threads, so I don't think we need to poach this one over inherent accuracy. Lots of different opinions.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/what-constitutes-“inherently-accurate-“.223964/

 

[FURMAN]

Someone disagrees and you want to take your ball and go home? Managing the direction of recoil so that is comes straight back has more to do with form than it does the level of recoil generated. For example, how many people load their harris bipods when there is no need, or set up so they are torquing the reticle on target? Its form to properly manage the recoil. Left untouched a rifle with free recoil, a rifle will always recoil straight back.

Why don't you set a rifle on the ground on a bipod on a rear rest not on a rest it doesn't matter Tie a string the trigger and pull it and see what happens to the rifle it will not free recoil straight back. The bipods we are shooting off create a moment the rifle wants to circle around. Brakes help counter this. All the things you mention about form apply regardless. I can accurately shoot an 8lb 30 Nosler with no brake. It's easier with a brake period. Same applies regardless of the cartridge.

 

[FURMAN]

This has been hashed out on many different threads, so I don't think we need to poach this one over inherent accuracy. Lots of different opinions.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/what-constitutes-“inherently-accurate-“.223964/

Opinions don't matter when the records make a statement.

 

[Mram10us]

PS, there is definitely inherent accuracy or there would not be a set number of calibers at competitions. Those crazy guys only care about accuracy. Check this out

 

[Tangent]

PredatorSlayer is 100% correct. Putting on a brake to stay on target is akin to slapping an 8 oz trigger because you have no trigger control. To some degree you can buy a solution. Or instead you can improve upon your fundamentals. It doesn't bother me what other folks decide is the correct answer for them.

As a professional engineer, I can say without pause that brakes do not increase the level of precision and/or accuracy of a rifle - not one bit. They merely help a shooter that is having problems staying on target, which starts and stops as a shooter problem.

 

[FURMAN]

PredatorSlayer is 100% correct. Putting on a brake to stay on target is akin to slapping an 8 oz trigger because you have no trigger control. To some degree you can buy a solution. Or instead you can improve upon your fundamentals. It doesn't bother me what other folks decide is the correct answer for them.

As a professional engineer, I can say without pause that brakes do not increase the level of precision and/or accuracy of a rifle - not one bit. They merely help a shooter that is having problems staying on target, which starts and stops as a shooter problem.

I would not be telling people in a public forum that you're an engineer that doesn't understand that muzzle flip occurs naturally and absolutely has an affect on point of impact regardless of shooter input

 

[Tangent]

I would not be telling people in a public forum that you're an engineer that doesn't understand that muzzle flip occurs naturally and absolutely has an affect on point of impact regardless of shooter input

I'm guessing you have and will never tell anyone that your a professional engineer...in any setting.

 

[FURMAN]

But for the sake of argument let's just pretend it didn't the fact remains brakes help people be more precise