Thoughts on 150 gr TTSX performance in 7mm WBY MAG

[Koda_]

I'm merely willing to give these copper mono projectiles a try, to see for myself what works and what doesn't. I'll adjust based on my findings.

I just recently switched to monos primarily because everything Im reading about them they are performing better terminally than lead. The photo you shared is pretty evident of that, even better I can harvest right up to the wound channel. Makes sense to me.

 

[VinceMule]

yes, just teasing, trying to have some fun! You know what you are doing! I am concerned about the bullet zipping through at 800. I shoot the 110g Barnes ttsx in my 270 Win at 3300, and the 140g Ttsx at 3250-3300 in my 7 Rem mag. My brother shoots the 130g TTSX in a 308 Win and 30/06. We have noticed that as distance increases, shock in the tissue goes way down, I am not a proponent of eating right up to the hole.

We skin and butcher quite a few of our deer, time allowing.

We like dead animals, real fast, and it takes a lot of hydrostatic shock to put animals on the ground fast unless you hit the central nervous system.

Bullet testing is fun, eh?

 

[Spotter's Signature]

I just recently switched to monos primarily because everything Im reading about them they are performing better terminally than lead. The photo you shared is pretty evident of that, even better I can harvest right up to the wound channel. Makes sense to me.

Based on what I saw so far, within 200 yds the copper monos absolutely dominate, because of their terminal ballistics at high velocities. 200-500 yds things get weird, and 700 yds and beyond is pushing it... Well constructed lead bullets start to dominate here, but it's lead and they can't match the penetration of the copper monos. Sometimes I feel like I'm chasing my own tail with all this
In the meantime, I'll focus on hunting, haha...

 

[Calvin45]

Remember the rule of thumb for monolithics. Reduce the bullet weight 10% from what you are using in cup & core. In my .30 cal, I went from 180 (Nosler Partition) to 168 TTSX, and in my .340 Wby, I went from 250 (Nosler Partition) to the 225 TTSX. When doing so, the velocities increased which is the key for getting performance on game from the all copper bullets. Accuracy for the Barnes TTSX has been excellent in all rifles I have shot them out of. Better than the Nosler Partition.
It's difficult for some old timers that have "always used a heavy bullet" to change their ways and use a lighter bullet in their rifle.

A good rule…and I honestly think 10 percent is minimal. From what I've seen I don't think there's a 180 grain 30 cal lead core bullet on earth that a 150 grain Barnes tsx or similar type mono wouldn't at least match, more likely exceed, for penetration.

 

[VinceMule]

I had a 7 STW that shot the 120g Barnes TTSX at 3850 into tiny, tiny groups of .300 and less for three-shot groups that would repeat time and time again, but never killed a deer or hog with them. We did however kill a lot of deer with the 120g Nosler Solid Base lead tip spt and ballistic tips at 3850 fps with IMR 7828 and R#22. The 120g noslers flattened deer at 500-550 yards.

 

[Koda_]

Based on what I saw so far, within 200 yds the copper monos absolutely dominate, because of their terminal ballistics at high velocities. 200-500 yds things get weird, and 700 yds and beyond is pushing it... Well constructed lead bullets start to dominate here, but it's lead and they can't match the penetration of the copper monos. Sometimes I feel like I'm chasing my own tail with all this
In the meantime, I'll focus on hunting, haha...

This is my understanding too, everything has a trade off but I havent heard of any intermediate issues though, generally under 700yds most monos still have plenty of velocity to expand...?

 

[Spotter's Signature]

yes, just teasing, trying to have some fun! You know what you are doing! I am concerned about the bullet zipping through at 800. I shoot the 110g Barnes ttsx in my 270 Win at 3300, and the 140g Ttsx at 3250-3300 in my 7 Rem mag. My brother shoots the 130g TTSX in a 308 Win and 30/06.

We skin and butcher quite a few of our deer, time allowing.

We like dead animals, real fast, and it takes a lot of hydrostatic shock to put animals on the ground fast unless you hit the central nervous system.

I share the same concern. 800 yds with my numbers would PERHAPS work. It's at the velocity threshold that opens these bullets, and below the psychological barrier of 1000 ft-lbs energy - this is risking injuring the animal. 700 yds has a better margin of error.

Now, what if the bull of a lifetime presents himself at 784 yds? Haha... I obsess enough, can't do it to myself at the moment

My close range default is a high shoulder shot; lights out. Knock on wood, it never let me down, regardless of projectile. I will not take it at a longer range though, that's cocky. There is some space between lungs and spine, and according to Murphy's Laws, that's where the bullet will go... >200 yds, lungs/heart only for me unless I have a stable platform and time.

 

[Spotter's Signature]

I had a 7 STW that shot the 120g Barnes TTSX at 3850 into tiny, tiny groups of .300 and less for three-shot groups that would repeat time and time again, but never killed a deer or hog with them. We did however kill a lot of deer with the 120g Nosler Solid Base lead tip spt and ballistic tips at 3850 fps with IMR 7828 and R#22. The 120g noslers flattened deer at 500-550 yards.

That would be very interesting to see the results of a TTSX hitting game at this velocity. Difficult to imagine the amount of bloodshot meat at this crazy speed! BTs are known to disintegrate at higher velocities; sometimes it's good, sometimes not.

 

[Spotter's Signature]

This is my understanding too, everything has a trade off but I havent heard of any intermediate issues though, generally under 700yds most monos still have plenty of velocity to expand...?

It depends on a caliber; I would likely not shoot copper in a 308 at that distance
My TTSX loads "work on paper" to 800 yds. 700 "should" work on game. And yes, the trade off here is the rapidly decreasing velocity over distance that the copper monos need to perform... If they hit their target fast, no problem. The issue is, how fast is surely fast enough? That's why I'm here, haha...

 

[Koda_]

If they hit their target fast, no problem. The issue is, how fast is surely fast enough? That's why I'm here, haha...

Gotta admit I was surprised to hear they told you they would fully open as low as 1700fps. I was guessing a non shedding solid would need around 2000fps to fully mushroom they way they do.
I wonder now if right at its terminal velocity a mono that sheds its petals would be better past 700yds?

 

[Calvin45]

That would be very interesting to see the results of a TTSX hitting game at this velocity. Difficult to imagine the amount of bloodshot meat at this crazy speed! BTs are known to disintegrate at higher velocities; sometimes it's good, sometimes not.

The bloodshot meat isn't as bad as you might fear….this year I shot a whitetail buck at 250-300 yards with a 75 grain hammer hunter leaving my 257 wby at 4150 feet per second. It exited too.

Didn't cause as much bloodshot meat as what I've seen with 130 grain soft points out of my 270 starting 1000 feet per second slower.

Any given bullet will be more violent the faster it's moving, that much is true and it's just physics. BUT, with that being acknowledged, I think bullet constriction and shot placement actually still have at least as much if not even more influence on this problem than pure velocity does.

 

[Spotter's Signature]

Gotta admit I was surprised to hear they told you they would fully open as low as 1700fps. I was guessing a non shedding solid would need around 2000fps to fully mushroom they way they do.
I wonder now if right at its terminal velocity a mono that sheds its petals would be better past 700yds?

I was too. It's one of the reasons I picked the 150 TTSX to toy with; 1500 fps to open! I thought that guy wasn't honest as similar bullets open usually at ~1900 fps. Some need to be over 2000 fps! The 1500 fps might be for "perfect conditions".

My recent thoughts exactly! I thought about LRX line - they are softer and are documented to lose petals. I thought about developing speed loads with these to ENSURE pass-throughs. The problem is, there are no good LRX projectiles for 7mm in my opinion (WBY MAG cartridges). Twist rate required (all are listed as 1:9.5", mine is a 10), and their specs are just not very compatible with my gun; I see not enough advantage to warrant a new load development with these, risking none would stabilize because of the twist rate required. It is a thought though. I'll be working on my 300 WIN MAG loads with these in the near future, likely 175 gr.

 

[Koda_]

The problem is, there are no good LRX projectiles for 7mm in my opinion (WBY MAG cartridges). Twist rate required (all are listed as 1:9.5", mine is a 10), and their specs are just not very compatible with my gun;

Your twist rate will limit your heavier options, another option is the 146gn Hammer Hunter designed specifically for 10 twist rifles which are exceptional at shedding their petals.

load development time is always a factor once you already have a load developed but its possible the difference between petal shedding vs full weight retention/mushrooming might be the terminal difference in long range shots your questioning. Is the little extra juice worth the squeeze....

 

[cape cove]

I use the 145 LRX in my 7mm Weatherby. Great bullet, very accurate. Launches at 3327 ft/sec from my 26" tube with .75 MOA accuracy. Works great