The Trouble with Accuracy at the Range

[dmoon]

An old friend of mine, who happens to be the guy to start to mold me used to tell me all the time when I first started shooting benchrest. "The wind can blow them in just as easily as blow them out". I think about this every time I get one good group. Like HARPERC said, you've got to learn to think of aggregates for each rifle you own. We all have good days and bad days, but over time they average out.

 

[Tesoro]

An old friend of mine, who happens to be the guy to start to mold me used to tell me all the time when I first started shooting benchrest. "The wind can blow them in just as easily as blow them out". I think about this every time I get one good group. Like HARPERC said, you've got to learn to think of aggregates for each rifle you own. We all have good days and bad days, but over time they average out.

True! but I think this would apply to saving just one shot out of an aggregate of shots. If you do shoot a great group claim it and dont think the wind helped you. When you shoot a bad group blame it on the wind and not your form! hah. I blame it on my barrel being too hot if there no wind.

 

[dmoon]

Tesoro, I like your idea better than my friends.....I'm going with your thought process!

 

[HARPERC]

... If you do shoot a great group claim it and dont think the wind helped you...

I refer to those shots as Kamakazie "divine wind" in Japanese.

Our expectations can be strange, I have 2 coming this summer, one will be lucky to make 16 lbs, the other maybe 8. Should my expectations be the same?

I have a front test that weighs about 60 lbs, adjustable in about any direction, integral level, and a joy stick for small adjustments. The days I'm too lazy to load it in the truck groups get noticeably bigger.

 

[Tesoro]

I have a friend who has one of those 60lb type rests. I understand after the first time I offered to pack it to his truck!
As I write I have a sinclair lightweight rest and rabbit ear rear bag in the fedex truck. I decided last week to at least standardize my rest for load development. Using different sandbags each time at my range dosent seem to help with things.

 

[Greyfox]

Unless shooting Benchrest/ "free recoil" where a competition style front rest/rear bag gives best results, I do the bulk of my "hard hold shooting style" load development and testing from a prone position with a rear bag. It's easier for me, to keep the shoulders at a 90 degree angle to the barrel. The "angled" position from most bench set-ups is difficult to control, and a major source of inconsistency, particularly with hunting weight rifles. The prone position(properly executed) gives me the greatest degree of consistency, and has usually produced my smallest groups. All other, more elevated positions used in hunting/competition will maintain a 90 degree shoulders/barrel relationship as well. IMO, this aspect is critical to accuracy/consistency.

 

[gohring3006]

Unless shooting Benchrest/ "free recoil" where a competition style front rest/rear bag gives best results, I do the bulk of my "hard hold shooting style" load development and testing from a prone position with a rear bag. It's easier for me, to keep the shoulders at a 90 degree angle to the barrel. The "angled" position from most bench set-ups is difficult to control, and a major source of inconsistency, particularly with hunting weight rifles. The prone position(properly executed) gives me the greatest degree of consistency, and has usually produced my smallest groups. All other, more elevated positions used in hunting/competition will maintain a 90 degree shoulders/barrel relationship as well. IMO, this aspect is critical to accuracy/consistency.

I do the same, I did have one Savage 7mag that didn't like to be touched. I sold it to friend that shot free recoil as his preferred method.

 

[Tesoro]

Is that why I used to get the most horrible 'crooked neck' pains the next day after extended shooting on our concrete benchrest benches with my hunting rifle?!!! I have since learned to move my bags all the way to the edge so that I can get in that 90 degree position and be squared up. Our benches are ambidextrous or I would shoot off the ends but it is too narrow.

Greyfox - what front rest do you use for your prone hard hold? bipod or bench rest?

 

[Greyfox]

Is that why I used to get the most horrible 'crooked neck' pains the next day after extended shooting on our concrete benchrest benches with my hunting rifle?!!! I have since learned to move my bags all the way to the edge so that I can get in that 90 degree position and be squared up. Our benches are ambidextrous or I would shoot off the ends but it is too narrow.

Greyfox - what front rest do you use for your prone hard hold? bipod or bench rest?

I use both Harris and Atlas Bipods, mostly since I also use them for hunting and PRS competition. A bag or mechanical bench rest will work just as well as long as it's solid stable.

 

[Tesoro]

Thx. Guess I need to get a good mat now. When will it end?!

 

[bdpayne2000]

Perhaps a story will help. I can clearly remember saying the same thing when I was first taught this principal many years ago. Myself and an elderly fella(now I'm in the same boat!) were the only ones shooting at the range. After watching me shoot for a while he came over, introduced himself and asked me if I would like to shoot his rifle. Getting behind his rifle(Rem/308), he asked me to line up the scope up on target at 100 yards. He said to place the crosshair on the 2" dot. He then asked if the crosshair and dot were completely in focus to my eye. My answer was yes. He said to take three shots into the center of the dot. I was quite pleased with all shots just inside the dot, about 1 1/2" group. He then said let's do it again, but this time I want you to place all your visual concentration on the center of the crosshair until the dot goes out of focus. It took several tries to actually get my eyes to do it. When I figured it out he had me again take three shots into the same 2'" dot. Three shots went into a cloverleaf, probably the tightest group I had ever shot at that time! He looked at me smiling and said, "Don't ever believe that was an accident. No matter what you think you see in that scope just a few inches from your nose, that target is still 100 yards away. You need to train your eyes and brain to account for it". This was likely the most valuable shooting advice I have had in more then 5 decades of shooting. As usual, there are varied opinions on this concept, but I'm a true believer!
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You often hear folks describing loads that shoot better at distance then at 100. Bryan Litz did some work in this area and could not prove that the phenomenon existed. I wonder if this couldn't account for some of this as to me it's more difficult to focus on the target at 1000then it is 100.

 

[g0rd0]

Thx. Guess I need to get a good mat now. When will it end?!

Tesoro dosnt know it yet but he has entered the twilight zone (cue creepy music then go back to the gun store to buy more gear)

 

[Tesoro]

Tesoro dosnt know it yet but he has entered the twilight zone (cue creepy music then go back to the gun store to buy more gear)

I entered that along time ago. I just cant get out of it!!

 

[Saracen]

As I leaned more and more about Precision Reloading and my Groups got smaller and smaller the one thing that really bothers me is Accuracy.......
Where in the Past if my rifle shot a 1 inch group I was ridding high now if I shot a 1" group I would be wondering what I did wrong. I should be happy with that.
I have one Custom Rifle from TS Customs in the 6.5 CM that just shoots in such a way that im always happy on the way home. But my two CZ 527's one day great and today, well the 17 Remington has a group that went 1.5 yet the other 10 shot group went a tad over 1"
This thing is that both CZ's one in the 17 Hornet and one in the 17 Remington have lots of 5 shot groups under .5. Its just that it does not happen every time.

That's the trouble with Accuracy at the Range .................in the field things are different you pull the trigger and make a hit ................that's all that matters, but at the Range ?

Just had to get that off my mind....................thanks for listening.

Getting good groups is desirable but once you've found your best load
, all that matters is that one shot hitting its mark every time, at all distances from all positions, in all weather.