The latest greatest Federal Cartridge

[CMP70306]

Nuff said!

And 7 BC is doing 3,000 in a 20" so the extra 140 fps of the 7 BC gains me what exactly? An extra 100 yards I can't use?

And let's be honest, if you hate the PRC line now you are also going to hate whatever high pressure version Hornady comes out with next anyway.

I'd like to know what the fps is after you get it dialed in and have a 16" barrel on it. Both you and @southpa make some good points, but you just said you have one, but it's shooting 2860 in a 20" barrel... The video was getting close to 3000 fps with a 16" barrel. If I had the stuff to reload that today, I may very well consider it, but how could one do that if we can't reload for it? Do you think it's possible to eek another 140 fps faster and remove 4" off the barrel as well? Understood it's the first load, but still...

EDIT, to be fair, the Hornady site does have some loads at 3000 fps for a 175 grain ELD-M, however that's with a 24" barrel. That means you believe you will get the same fps with 8" off the barrel? That's a pretty big magnum.

My goal for this rifle was to land my effective range somewhere between the 650 yards for my 20" 30-06 shooting the 178 ELD-X and the 1000 yards for my 26" .300 Win Mag shooting the 225 ELD-M. I thought about going shorter than 20" but being my first foray into the 7mm caliber I decided to be conservative about it plus it reduces the risk of suppressor incompatibility since there are a bunch of good titanium cans limited to 18" to 20" on magnum cartridges.

I'm sure N560 and RL-26 would get faster speeds out of the 7 PRC but that extra 23% pressure ceiling on the 7 BC makes up for a lot of difference in powder capacity and about 300 fps over similarly sized cartridges like the 280 AI.

 

[memtb]

In "half heartedly" following this thread, I was just struck with this thought.

With so many having an aversion to recoil……I must assume that this additional velocity comes with some increased recoil. Yes it can be mitigated with brakes or suppressors……but, not everyone "swings" that way! memtb

 

[CMP70306]

In "half heartedly" following this thread, I was just struck with this thought.

With so many having an aversion to recoil……I must assume that this additional velocity comes with some increased recoil. Yes it can be mitigated with brakes or suppressors……but, not everyone "swings" that way! memtb

Theoretically but at the same time you lose recoil due to 10 to 15 grains less powder so recoil will end up being somewhere between the 280 AI and the magnums

 

[southpa]

"You do know" that 2920fps is faster than 2860fps...., 20" is longer than 16"... and the case capacity of the 280 is 67 grains while the 7prc is 82.....

So it's substantialy shorter, has a substantial amount LESS powder and still outperforms the 7prc....imagine if the 280BC had a 20" barrel....with those pressure it might hit speeds the 7prc could only imagine...or wait, it already has.....

And 7 BC is doing 3,000 in a 20" so the extra 140 fps of the 7 BC gains me what exactly? An extra 100 yards I can't use?

And let's be honest, if you hate the PRC line now you are also going to hate whatever high pressure version Hornady comes out with next anyway.



My goal for this rifle was to land my effective range somewhere between the 650 yards for my 20" 30-06 shooting the 178 ELD-X and the 1000 yards for my 26" .300 Win Mag shooting the 225 ELD-M. I thought about going shorter than 20" but being my first foray into the 7mm caliber I decided to be conservative about it plus it reduces the risk of suppressor incompatibility since there are a bunch of good titanium cans limited to 18" to 20" on magnum cartridges.

I'm sure N560 and RL-26 would get faster speeds out of the 7 PRC but that extra 23% pressure ceiling on the 7 BC makes up for a lot of difference in powder capacity and about 300 fps over similarly sized cartridges like the 280 AI.

2860 is slower than 2920....
20" is longer than 16"....
280 case is 67 grains 7prc is 82 grainss...
Put down the bottle man hahah.

And how are you going to tell me what I am and am not going to hate? The 7prc is a joke IMO. It does nothing more than sell to ding dongs who argue that it does more when it doesn't. You drank the kool-aid. It's all good. You can like what you like that's not the premise here. I truly am glad your rifles are doing what you like. But just because you put lipstick on that pig doesn't mean we all think she looks pretty cuz she ain't. It DOES NOT operform what the 7bc is already putting out.

 

[Lou270]

The high pressure rounds are interesting. I saw a youtube of a guy shooting the 277 fury out of 16" Sig Cross and getting near 2900 fps with 150 accubond hybrid factory load. So about 22" with suppressor. That would make a handy hunting rifle without sacrificing ballistics and with a 308 sized case to boot. That said I am skeptical on the full steel case of 7BC and accuracy. The hybrid 277 case seems a better mouse trap. In either case I am skeptical that you don't need action designed for the cartridges for the higher pressure vs any old action. Sig and Seekins both made a new beefier action for ex

Lou

 

[fseaman.js]

You do realize that eventually that same tech will most likely make it over to the PRC's, and other legacy cartridges, removing the sole advantage the 7 BC has right? It's cool now but let's not kid ourselves that in the long run it will be in the exact same place the .280 AI is now once smaller and larger cartridges are introduced.

While the case technology will most likely translate to other cartridge designs, there is one consideration. Total stress on the action.

Weatherby confirmed that our "worry" about bolt thrust was unnecessary. The "Peak" alloy seems to provide what ever is needed to remove this issue.

We often use PSI as a measure "things". Case pressure being our "usual". However there is another way to look at things. Total stress of the pressure over all parts of the action. There is a thing called "stress risers" that is where there is some "weakness" created by a thin spot, hard angle, flaw. This is why barreled actions are "proofed" with loads %150 to %200 higher than "normal".

If the case pressure is say 80k PSI and the surface area of the case is 3 SI there would be 240k total pressure on the action, I know, not exact, someone with that kind of engineering please fix it if not good enough for example.

so

If there is a "stress riser" in the action somewhere due to design or flaw, it might be enough to break something.

Larger diameter designs like those based on375 H&H, 375 Ruger or 300 RUM might not leave enough material for the safety margin for these stress risers.

This may turn out to be a total non-issue just like bolt thrust. I'm not the right kind of engineer for that.

 

[southpa]

The high pressure rounds are interesting. I saw a youtube of a guy shooting the 277 fury out of 16" Sig Cross and getting near 2900 fps with 150 accubond hybrid factory load. So about 22" with suppressor. That would make a handy hunting rifle without sacrificing ballistics and with a 308 sized case to boot. That said I am skeptical on the full steel case of 7BC and accuracy. The hybrid 277 case seems a better mouse trap. In either case I am skeptical that you don't need action designed for the cartridges for the higher pressure vs any old action. Sig and Seekins both made a new beefier action for ex

Lou

Hey Lou,
These are definitely true concerns but at what point is this all just mental masturbation? I'm not planning to run out and buy all this new stuff just to build a platform that's accepting of these high pressures but what other choice do we have but to trust in the engineers that are developing these platforms? Personally, I like the idea of this and an beefier action to support it! As I've said before, time will tell how it's supported. Shorter and smaller but faster...if it proves out than what's the downside? Obviously those nuances will be ironed out and the decision will be ours to make in the end. But ultimately I think we are both on the same page. Excited to see

 

[Marky_mark]

The engineers designing these are just trying to make money for the companies they work for. Higher pressure rounds are going to have a way faster recoil pulse and will have more felt recoil than a larger case at lower pressure. This cartridge is going to be a flop

 

[southpa]

The engineers designing these are just trying to make money for the companies they work for. Higher pressure rounds are going to have a way faster recoil pulse and will have more felt recoil than a larger case at lower pressure. This cartridge is going to be a flop

Opinions on the flop
Congratulations you've identified how a markett works

 

[Axl]

The engineers designing these are just trying to make money for the companies they work for. Higher pressure rounds are going to have a way faster recoil pulse and will have more felt recoil than a larger case at lower pressure. This cartridge is going to be a flop

The cartridge may be a flop- most new ones are. But the case technology will be a success. This is just gen 1. There will be more.
Federal is set to announce at SHOT this week, and start shipping 5.56mm rounds with the new case material soon.
Geissele Automatics has a video posted shooting this ammo. Increase of 322 fps in a 14" barrel AR, over a standard load with the same bullet.

 

[Lou270]

Hey Lou,
These are definitely true concerns but at what point is this all just mental masturbation? I'm not planning to run out and buy all this new stuff just to build a platform that's accepting of these high pressures but what other choice do we have but to trust in the engineers that are developing these platforms? Personally, I like the idea of this and an beefier action to support it! As I've said before, time will tell how it's supported. Shorter and smaller but faster...if it proves out than what's the downside? Obviously those nuances will be ironed out and the decision will be ours to make in the end. But ultimately I think we are both on the same page. Excited to see

Yep. I am just watching with no plans to buy anything. I do think the high pressure stuff is the most meaningful change in probably 100 years so curious to see how that goes. Everthing else has been minor tweaks in grand scheme of things or pushing out stuff that custom guys have been doing to masses. This is a real and signifcant change and the real ups/downs will not be known until years and volumes of rifles and shots have worked out the kinks.

Lou

 

[AussieWriter]

But reloading info is ziltch......
Dies are still being developed.
Reloading data doesn't exist.
Powders used may be either proprietry or unavailable.
Federal cannot even satisfy the handloading market with primers.
Not only DOA but in the hole watching the first shovel of dirt being tossed.

 

[Lou270]

Yeah - I dunno on reloading or if that is important to the masses. It would be a deal killer for me. Hornady set the bar on the approach of creedmorizing and releasing every possible variant of a caliber/cartridge use and see which stick. They apparently are ****ed Winchester snuck in with the 6.8W. I am guessing Federal will do this with the new "peak alloy" case and see which stick. In years past a 30 cal would have been the first choice but high BC / 7prc craze probably directed to 7mm. A couple of years ago they would probably have started with 6.5 BC

Lou

 

[southpa]

But reloading info is ziltch......
Dies are still being developed.
Reloading data doesn't exist.
Powders used may be either proprietry or unavailable.
Federal cannot even satisfy the handloading market with primers.
Not only DOA but in the hole watching the first shovel of dirt being tossed.

It's not even out yet man, once its released and in circulation all the answers will be found. Until then we will continue to speculate. I see what youre saying i just dont understand why there is this area 51 idea surrounding it? Also, nobody can satisfy the market with consumables. Nothing new there.

I may be a but of an optimist but something tells me once this thing is in circulation you'll have all the answers. Of course there's nothing out or available on this it's not even out or available....