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The latest greatest Federal Cartridge

I have been taking elk & deer for almost 70 years with the old stuff I have. A new , so called super cartridge will not change that. My 264 mag & 7 mag from the 1960's will sill shoot under an inch. The newer powders make them perform better than ever. Besides , my Savage 260 Rem with mono bullets has been super effective on on elk for many years . Add to that , I have an abundance of brass & bullets for my existing rifles. Why spend money on some thing I don't need.
I could not agree with you more. I have similar rifles to yours and I share the same ideas as you do. Nothing has changed the old stuff. They are just as effective and reliable as they always have been and nothing is going to change that. As you say, they may even be a bit better than they used to be because of the new powders and bullets.

It's hard to deny though that things are changing and improving. I don't think I want to be the beta tester in all this new wiz-bang stuff though. I don't think the quest for new and improved is ever going to end until we reach Star Trek phaser rifles.
 
Newer does not automatically mean better. In 1913 Charles Newton brought out the .256 Newton.. A 6.5 necked down version of the 30-06 ( 6.5 PRC of the day ) . As the years went by the 6.5x06 was better defined. With powders today the 6,5x06 will completely duplicate the ballistic performance of the 6.5 PRC, & do it with an abundant & much less expensive supply 25-06 or 30-06 brass. My 6.5-06 with 24" 1/8 twist Bbl. will drive Nosler 140gr AB bullets to 3075 fps with Rel 26. Also using the Hornady 130gr CX mono bullet & Ramshot Magnum powder will achieve 3141 fps, a very effective heavy game load. This new Federal cartridge , from what I see will do nothing that existing cartridges don't do already. Past information is a great way to learn how to move forward. IMHO...
 
Newer does not automatically mean better. In 1913 Charles Newton brought out the .256 Newton.. A 6.5 necked down version of the 30-06 ( 6.5 PRC of the day ) . As the years went by the 6.5x06 was better defined. With powders today the 6,5x06 will completely duplicate the ballistic performance of the 6.5 PRC, & do it with an abundant & much less expensive supply 25-06 or 30-06 brass. My 6.5-06 with 24" 1/8 twist Bbl. will drive Nosler 140gr AB bullets to 3075 fps with Rel 26. Also using the Hornady 130gr CX mono bullet & Ramshot Magnum powder will achieve 3141 fps, a very effective heavy game load. This new Federal cartridge , from what I see will do nothing that existing cartridges don't do already. Past information is a great way to learn how to move forward. IMHO...
I'm copying from a conversation I had with my brother from earlier today. He said, "Newer isn't always better and who defines better. What is the measure of success and who determines it. Pure science is measured one way...the utilitarian value another. Rifles as hunting instruments have different factors at play than pure shooting instruments."
 
Was not just the distance, but she was slow to follow up and her dad kept trying to get her to put "another one" in the elk.
I had some time and so I wrote a lengthy critique of what went right and more importantly what could have been done better with her, but then deleted all that. Since we are killing time and the smoke outside is bad again....

In many things in life that are complex and happen fast, we have a briefing and often a "landing configuration checklist". Much like launching or landing a plane, you must know what you will do at both good and bad pivot points well before you go into the heat of those moments.

There is no time for discussions once the shooting starts. All I want to tell them is if they need a shot placement correction, or the word "again". They should already have the bolt opened and ready to follow up. When there are many elk together, they don't shoot again if they are not positive they are on the same animal. My job is to stop them from shooting the wrong one on a follow up shot when there is pandemonium.

If they are shooting too much gun, their reoil is going cause them to loose track of their sight picture and potentially shoot the wrong animal on a follow up. We don't want a caliber that is too small, or one that is too big. This issue makes it one of those long personal talks where what works for one kid doesn't for another.

Cartridge talk is important, but so is the weight of the gun. The recoil directly affects the odds of hitting the kill zone regardless of the caliber, so the weight of the gun is just as important as ballistic choice.

Sometimes their father puts them on a boomer they cannot handle. The girl might be too timid to argue with her dad. I would rather have the opposite problem and I will still get them into range.

Elk are not magical and can be dropped when shot properly, but they can do magical things once shot wrong. This time, she had all the time in the world, but this is not the time to talk about anecdotes or statistics. There is time at the range to discuss shooting and marksmanship, but once the topic turns to killing it goes on autopilot and needs to be automatic.

As a metaphor that applies to hunting with juniors, it is our responsibility to coach them. When we take a young lady or young man into ballistics or hunting, and we skip them too far ahead without the benefits of fundamentals or allowing them to learn on smaller game etc., then it is the guide's responsibility to give them the mental checklist well before the ammo goes into the guns.

In the heat of the action, they have to fall back on a pre-briefed mental plan or checklist. There is no time to get philosophical or to discuss statistics or terminal ballistics. We owe that elk a clean quick death, and we have to prevent the mental anguish a young lady will go through should she loose a wounded animal.

When adults botch a shot, they have a very bad night and many are very upset the next day if we don't recover their animal. Going home empty is one thing, the nightmare of wounding and loosing an animal is much worse.

Bring enough gun to kill your elk, but only bring the one that you can shoot very very well under realistic conditions. Even if you never get a shot, you still win for the experience.
 
So sorry about the fire in the LA area. I realize it doesn't help much , but just stepped out side on my front porch to take this shot. If you can make it out it is snowing.
 

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If they are shooting too much gun, their reoil is going cause them to loose track of their sight picture and potentially shoot the wrong animal on a follow up. We don't want a caliber that is too small, or one that is too big. This issue makes it one of those long personal talks where what works for one kid doesn't for another.

I completely agree, but aside from that, I thought her hits looks good to me, but the Elk was tough. He did eventually go down, but it was not ethical and it was at 390 yards, a fair distance for a young kid, IMO. That could have been her first, I haven't watched that since I posted it. From my view, 6.5 Grendel is not the cartridge I want on a hunt like that, even if one round drops an elk in a similar situation.

At 390 yards a 308/6.5cm would have dropped that Elk in one shot.

I also wanted to explain my situation, as I have thought about this a lot. I didn't get to hunt with my son, and he's 33 now. He has offered to go hunting with me and help me pack meat out, but he's not rifle friendly yet, and I have never taken him to the range even. I have taken his sister when she was 13, and she's a good shot. I think my son would be also, he knows all the popular weapons as evidently they're used in video games and movies like John Wick...but my plan was to have him start out with a 300 blackout with a 7.5" barrel, it's like 6 lbs. fully kitted with 10 rounds and a pistol brace. I said my plan "was", because I don't know if I can bring that for him unless the law changes in CA by July. I can take him to the range, but he's mostly into backpacking. He is a big meat eater and does feel like everyone who eats meat should take game at least once in their life or forever be a hypocrite. He will, even if it's only once. I would have him use the 6.5 Grendel with a 12" barrel, hypothetically, but would try to push him up to 6.5 Creedmoor for anything longer than 200 yards.

That said, recently @snox801 mentioned the 97 grain Hammer Absolutes getting 3200, but that girl wasn't shooting those rounds. Fault of her father??? I don't know, and I don't want to comment as that video is excerpts from the original video, it looks like.

That's next. The 6.5 LGBQ+

They have those in SF city, the homeless shoot that round in their arm, the Government gives them free needles and ammo money! You can see 'em at the Freeway entrances all over the Bay Area. They have signs, "Will work for ammo". 😏
 
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