Testing the 135gr Apex-Outdoors Afterburners

[Petey308]

Latest test with the 135gr .308" Afterburner. Nothing fancy, just the footage of me discussing what I see and my thoughts as we get to him and as I gut him.

This was a 500+ yard shot using the Apex Outdoors 135gr Afterburner from a 308win, impacting around 1946fps (3000fps MV) into the base of the neck, exiting out the neck. This was a lower impact velocity shot (for a copper bullet) and also a pretty low impact resistance shot as well, having not hit any bone.

The wounding still showed evidence that the bullet expanded as designed, but I was unable to find any petals or hard evidence that it for sure shed those petals, as designed. I would be surprised if it didn't though, just based on the previous three deer we've killed with it, and other results I've seen with testing of this bullet.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the results I've gotten with this bullet so far. Shedding weight is a crucial part of enabling energy to transfer into massive wounding and the ability to shut down the CNS upon impact. This being a copper bullet that actually does shed weight, it provides that. It's well designed to perform well in all three areas of ballistics- internal, external, and terminal. It's easy to load for, has a high BC to retain velocity well and extend range capability, and produces better overall wounding and energy transfer than many other copper bullets on the market.

Finally had some free time to get the video done on my son's deer. Nothing fancy, just the footage of me discussing what I see and my thoughts as we get to him and as I gut him.

Again, this was a 500 yard shot using the Apex Outdoors 135gr Afterburner from a 308win, impacting around 1946fps into the base of the neck, exiting out the neck. This was a lower impact velocity shot (for a copper bullet) and also a pretty low impact resistance shot as well, having not hit any bone.

The wounding still showed evidence that the bullet expanded as designed, but I was unable to find any petals or hard evidence that it for sure shed those petals, as designed. I would be surprised if it didn't though, just based on the previous three deer we've killed with it, and other results I've seen with testing of this bullet.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the results I've gotten with this bullet. Shedding weight is a crucial part of enabling energy to transfer into massive wounding and the ability to shut down the CNS upon impact. This being a copper bullet that actually does shed weight, it provides that. It's well designed to perform well in all three areas of ballistics- internal, external, and terminal. It's easy to load for, has a high BC to retain velocity well and extend range capability, and produces better overall wounding and energy transfer than many other copper bullets on the market.

 

[ButterBean]

I'm not trying to be "That Guy" but at 10:10 you say at under 2000fps they are better than most copper bullets, I'd like to see the other videos of the bullets you tested and the comparisons for you to come to this conclusion and then you say I can't stand here and tell us that the TMK would not do any better but you "Think" they would do just as well or if anything better.
Then in another thread you say say you have tested thousands of bullets so what gives?????
On another note the bullet worked great, Keep up the good work Mark

 

[Petey308]

I'm not trying to be "That Guy" but at 10:10 you say at under 2000fps they are better than most copper bullets, I'd like to see the other videos of the bullets you tested and the comparisons for you to come to this conclusion and then you say I can't stand here and tell us that the TMK would not do any better but you "Think" they would do just as well or if anything better.
Then in another thread you say say you have tested thousands of bullets so what gives?????
On another note the bullet worked great, Keep up the good work Mark

Do I need to list each copper bullet for you and compare it to each one? I said "most" for a reason. I said what I said in the moment, and yes I stand by that with how those other bullets may or may not perform in this exact scenario. It's a simple video showing the particular results and my thoughts in the moment. To name a few bullets though that I was referring to, it would be ones like Barnes varieties, Hornady GMX/CX, Nosler E-tip, and others designed to retain their petals. As alluded to in the video, those types of bullets work best, terminally, impacting above 2200fps (not saying they won't work below that).

Obviously without taking the exact same shot with the exact same placement with a TMK, ELDM, etc I can't tell you it would be exactly the same. I can only speculate, based on the experience I have previously. Thats where the testing before you're referring to comes in. Those types of bullets have performed very well for me down to 1400fps or less impact velocity and with low resistance.

I'm sorry I haven't documented all my kills going back several decades. I didn't have all the fancy equipment to do that back then, nor did I think to take pictures and video because I wasn't purposely testing and documenting this stuff until the last 6 years or so. Even then, I haven't been good about remembering to take pictures and video. You'll just have to accept what I have, or not. There's plenty of other pictures and videos out there you can extrapolate from. When I start making money doing this, I'll put much more effort into documenting things more thoroughly.

No matter how many disclaimers I try to make in the video or text, certain people will take things out of context and try to nitpick or act as though I'm saying their favorite bullet isn't as good. That's ok. We all do it at times, even me. If you have further questions, please ask, but hopefully this helps. This isn't a full review and conclusion on this bullet, to be clear.

 

[FEENIX]

Latest test with the 135gr .308" Afterburner. Nothing fancy, just the footage of me discussing what I see and my thoughts as we get to him and as I gut him.

This was a 500+ yard shot using the Apex Outdoors 135gr Afterburner from a 308win, impacting around 1946fps (3000fps MV) into the base of the neck, exiting out the neck. This was a lower impact velocity shot (for a copper bullet) and also a pretty low impact resistance shot as well, having not hit any bone.

The wounding still showed evidence that the bullet expanded as designed, but I was unable to find any petals or hard evidence that it for sure shed those petals, as designed. I would be surprised if it didn't though, just based on the previous three deer we've killed with it, and other results I've seen with testing of this bullet.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the results I've gotten with this bullet so far. Shedding weight is a crucial part of enabling energy to transfer into massive wounding and the ability to shut down the CNS upon impact. This being a copper bullet that actually does shed weight, it provides that. It's well designed to perform well in all three areas of ballistics- internal, external, and terminal. It's easy to load for, has a high BC to retain velocity well and extend range capability, and produces better overall wounding and energy transfer than many other copper bullets on the market.

Finally had some free time to get the video done on my son's deer. Nothing fancy, just the footage of me discussing what I see and my thoughts as we get to him and as I gut him.

Again, this was a 500 yard shot using the Apex Outdoors 135gr Afterburner from a 308win, impacting around 1946fps into the base of the neck, exiting out the neck. This was a lower impact velocity shot (for a copper bullet) and also a pretty low impact resistance shot as well, having not hit any bone.

The wounding still showed evidence that the bullet expanded as designed, but I was unable to find any petals or hard evidence that it for sure shed those petals, as designed. I would be surprised if it didn't though, just based on the previous three deer we've killed with it, and other results I've seen with testing of this bullet.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the results I've gotten with this bullet. Shedding weight is a crucial part of enabling energy to transfer into massive wounding and the ability to shut down the CNS upon impact. This being a copper bullet that actually does shed weight, it provides that. It's well designed to perform well in all three areas of ballistics- internal, external, and terminal. It's easy to load for, has a high BC to retain velocity well and extend range capability, and produces better overall wounding and energy transfer than many other copper bullets on the market.

Excellent as always! Mark did an awesome job with the bullet design. I am still waiting for a heavier than 200g .33 Cal.

BTW, I still owe you some bullets. I will get them to you ASAP.

Ed

 

[snox801]

Those are some very good looking bullets.

 

[fordy]

Gday
I'm not getting into the crap on here of this vrs that or what this did or didn't do I'm over it big time

I'll reiterate if this keeps going of this company vrs that or people with bias against another you watch our sport die
It's pathetic REALLY PATHETIC
Yes we can have different opinions but this place is truely another level it's so sad


What I'll offer Aron is a few pointers on how to evaluate the kill a little clearer manner for one to see & get your videos to a better standard than the good already ( & please the white noise brigade keep out of this comment as it's not derogatory it's trying to help as I'm sure Aron will understand )

Try to do the same system of analysis ea time as your jumping in different directions from video to video
( it's also learning so I accept you haven't found your niche yet but it will come just like riding a bike with training wheels help us to the end goal it's the same process till you become fluent )

So
Evaluate the wound & keep out of the copper vrs lead thing or mushroom vrs shedding as you got tongue tied ( ha I can talk I'm bad @ stuttering) & then dosent do you favours by putting the writing up afterwards ( it's good for clarification yes but not the contradiction)

Have a unit of measurement that is consistent eg a coke can or leatherman as ea individual fingers or hands are different so no hope of evaluating for viewers that want to delve deeper

It's always better to measure distance & step out ( can be your actual foot as mine are exactly 1 foot & my stride on average is just over a yard well use to be as it's been considerably shortened lately ) in your videos from the point of impact to tip but easier from tip to impact in the case you had as animal is visual of where it tipped & take the video before you move the animal as the way it has tipped over tells us how it also reacted to the shot sometimes

Understand what your looking @ as the blood in that lung was evident of what occurred & it would have been better "evaluating the wound " first before delving further as it gives you a way better understanding of how a pill is acting in the animal & what it does so before you look inside look what's going on @ entry & exit taking notes of angle & penetration length if a exit occurred

Once that is done your onto the next stage & so on
& I won't type all that up as it's quite involved for me to type but simple also & my advice is go find a veterinarian or doctor that enjoys hunting & do autopsy's with them as you'll learn so much more or I don't know if you guys over there have state veterinary services that do autopsy on cattle or like to show things on a course base but we use to here in Tassie & one I'd highly recommend for you to do if available & get your kids involved as younger eyes don't get pre thoughts in one's head

Overall you starting the wonderful world of autopsy & I thankyou for having a go & wish you the best
Just stay neutral & don't tongue tie yourself up

On pill preformance it did a good job & one I'm happy to see that & no complaint on that wound in that resistance from me

On referencing other bullets like the Barnes be careful also giving those numbers out as you'll find that depending on resistance you will get various results on impacts so just be careful ( we need to evaluate a lot of animals under that particular resistance before those assumptions are made )

I'd not put things up like it was your last bullet as that if things go wrong the antis have a field day with & we need to cover our bases as I'm sure you did on another firearm present or load that you knew where it shot ( dual load )

Overall keep going & you will get those training wheels off it just takes time

A mentor is one that also in todays world is also a option as FaceTime call ( a call @ minimum ) is extremely valuable if you can find that mentor but they are really hard to find & maybe once again a old hunter that was a trauma doctor or veterinarian that can't get out as much as they want & still get pleasure on helping & gives them also a part of being part of your hunt

Once again no malice this way
I've said my piece & most likely bow out of this thread as I have others lately as I just don't want the crap in my life & I'd rather be showing where bullets can be improved not this

Cheers

 

[Petey308]

Gday
I'm not getting into the crap on here of this vrs that or what this did or didn't do I'm over it big time

I'll reiterate if this keeps going of this company vrs that or people with bias against another you watch our sport die
It's pathetic REALLY PATHETIC
Yes we can have different opinions but this place is truely another level it's so sad


What I'll offer Aron is a few pointers on how to evaluate the kill a little clearer manner for one to see & get your videos to a better standard than the good already ( & please the white noise brigade keep out of this comment as it's not derogatory it's trying to help as I'm sure Aron will understand )

Try to do the same system of analysis ea time as your jumping in different directions from video to video
( it's also learning so I accept you haven't found your niche yet but it will come just like riding a bike with training wheels help us to the end goal it's the same process till you become fluent )

So
Evaluate the wound & keep out of the copper vrs lead thing or mushroom vrs shedding as you got tongue tied ( ha I can talk I'm bad @ stuttering) & then dosent do you favours by putting the writing up afterwards ( it's good for clarification yes but not the contradiction)

Have a unit of measurement that is consistent eg a coke can or leatherman as ea individual fingers or hands are different so no hope of evaluating for viewers that want to delve deeper

It's always better to measure distance & step out ( can be your actual foot as mine are exactly 1 foot & my stride on average is just over a yard well use to be as it's been considerably shortened lately ) in your videos from the point of impact to tip but easier from tip to impact in the case you had as animal is visual of where it tipped & take the video before you move the animal as the way it has tipped over tells us how it also reacted to the shot sometimes

Understand what your looking @ as the blood in that lung was evident of what occurred & it would have been better "evaluating the wound " first before delving further as it gives you a way better understanding of how a pill is acting in the animal & what it does so before you look inside look what's going on @ entry & exit taking notes of angle & penetration length if a exit occurred

Once that is done your onto the next stage & so on
& I won't type all that up as it's quite involved for me to type but simple also & my advice is go find a veterinarian or doctor that enjoys hunting & do autopsy's with them as you'll learn so much more or I don't know if you guys over there have state veterinary services that do autopsy on cattle or like to show things on a course base but we use to here in Tassie & one I'd highly recommend for you to do if available & get your kids involved as younger eyes don't get pre thoughts in one's head

Overall you starting the wonderful world of autopsy & I thankyou for having a go & wish you the best
Just stay neutral & don't tongue tie yourself up

On pill preformance it did a good job & one I'm happy to see that & no complaint on that wound in that resistance from me

On referencing other bullets like the Barnes be careful also giving those numbers out as you'll find that depending on resistance you will get various results on impacts so just be careful ( we need to evaluate a lot of animals under that particular resistance before those assumptions are made )

I'd not put things up like it was your last bullet as that if things go wrong the antis have a field day with & we need to cover our bases as I'm sure you did on another firearm present or load that you knew where it shot ( dual load )

Overall keep going & you will get those training wheels off it just takes time

A mentor is one that also in todays world is also a option as FaceTime call ( a call @ minimum ) is extremely valuable if you can find that mentor but they are really hard to find & maybe once again a old hunter that was a trauma doctor or veterinarian that can't get out as much as they want & still get pleasure on helping & gives them also a part of being part of your hunt

Once again no malice this way
I've said my piece & most likely bow out of this thread as I have others lately as I just don't want the crap in my life & I'd rather be showing where bullets can be improved not this

Cheers

Thanks for all that, but as I stated that video was not an attempt at a professional autopsy or bullet review. It was simply some video I made as I gutted the deer to have to reference. It's presented as is. Surely you understand that concept when you always mention in your posts that you don't proofread or edit your posts.

I will take your critiques into consideration in the future. It's very easy to think of all the shoulda/couldas in hindsight. I absolutely did that and always wish later I did things differently. It's a bit hard to go back and redo it after the fact. Everyone's a critic and a lot do not make videos of post things to avoid the critics. It is what it is though, and I'm ok with it.

Do you have any videos of you doing this sort of thing for me to learn from?

 

[FEENIX]

Thanks for all that, but as I stated that video was not an attempt at a professional autopsy or bullet review. It was simply some video I made as I gutted the deer to have to reference. It's presented as is. Surely you understand that concept when you always mention in your posts that you don't proofread or edit your posts.

I will take your critiques into consideration in the future. It's very easy to think of all the shoulda/couldas in hindsight. I absolutely did that and always wish later I did things differently. It's a bit hard to go back and redo it after the fact. Everyone's a critic and a lot do not make videos of post things to avoid the critics. It is what it is though, and I'm ok with it.

Do you have any videos of you doing this sort of thing for me to learn from?

No need for a red-ball, declare IFE, or be at the EOR, stay with your LASTE and GCAS. Stick with your ICT. BRRRT!!!

 

[Petey308]

No need for a red-ball, declare IFE, or be at the EOR, stay with your LASTE and GCAS. Stick with your ICT. BRRRT!!!

Perfect

 

[FEENIX]

Perfect

No more Xs.

 

[fordy]

Gday
I don't know what all those abbreviations stand for feenix or what ever you call them
Which is cool as I'm not worried about getting into what ever you enjoy doing

Aron I offered that information above as your quality of your video is really good & on the way you run your ammo loading business I thought it would be beneficial to increase the level of your knowledge & application of how you relay the information to improve your already good stuff

Now I also see it's part of the journey to start @ a certain level & throughout one's personal journey the level of professionalism improves
Now I don't want anyone to get any ideas to think I'm great @ videos or a guru on how to do as I'm not as I'm technically challenged to do them & I tried on another thread to add one of my videos to help but I don't know how so I just screen shot that particular video to try & help that particular person
So I don't have any issues showing my videos if I could
I video a huge amount & are mainly for my own reference to evaluate a pills capabilities & if it helps others that's also cool & this is what I have found to be the best for comparing one to the next & that's the same on the pointers I gave you in my previous post if it helps all cool if not just dismiss but the part of a mentour I think would be great for you as your level of knowledge will advance quicker if one's with expertise in that area can show you in real life as pictures are not as good as real life experiences

Personally I don't want to edit as I've been accused of trying to cover things up a long time ago which I don't like so I just leave as is so no accusations can be made well shouldn't as I'm still labeled but guess that's life & I accept that & move forward to not worry about the peanut gallery

Think I covered all of that & look forward to your journey whatever way you go
Cheers

 

[Petey308]

Gday
I don't know what all those abbreviations stand for feenix or what ever you call them
Which is cool as I'm not worried about getting into what ever you enjoy doing

Aron I offered that information above as your quality of your video is really good & on the way you run your ammo loading business I thought it would be beneficial to increase the level of your knowledge & application of how you relay the information to improve your already good stuff

Now I also see it's part of the journey to start @ a certain level & throughout one's personal journey the level of professionalism improves
Now I don't want anyone to get any ideas to think I'm great @ videos or a guru on how to do as I'm not as I'm technically challenged to do them & I tried on another thread to add one of my videos to help but I don't know how so I just screen shot that particular video to try & help that particular person
So I don't have any issues showing my videos if I could
I video a huge amount & are mainly for my own reference to evaluate a pills capabilities & if it helps others that's also cool & this is what I have found to be the best for comparing one to the next & that's the same on the pointers I gave you in my previous post if it helps all cool if not just dismiss but the part of a mentour I think would be great for you as your level of knowledge will advance quicker if one's with expertise in that area can show you in real life as pictures are not as good as real life experiences

Personally I don't want to edit as I've been accused of trying to cover things up a long time ago which I don't like so I just leave as is so no accusations can be made well shouldn't as I'm still labeled but guess that's life & I accept that & move forward to not worry about the peanut gallery

Think I covered all of that & look forward to your journey whatever way you go
Cheers

I appreciate you giving me the pointers. These videos this year in particular weren't the full quality I'd have liked with the full breakdown I'd have wanted. Both hunts were last minute with very little prep time.

I've done a lot of bullet testing for my own personal research for a long time. Doing it and getting footage to share publicly is more of a new thing for me and still isn't something I've dedicated to doing at a professional level yet. Right now it's just throwing up a simple video on YouTube like this. I only edited the videos to add text to help clarify what was said, and that's it.

I'm working on getting more access to more land to hunt and when that happens, I'll have more opportunities to do a lot more testing and then get a lot more professional footage and documentation. I'll be more prepared and have items to use in the videos to better show size references and such. So know worries there. I already know what to do to make them more what they ought to be.

So again, I appreciate you giving me all that advice. I agree the videos would be better doing all that. This was better than nothing or just pictures alone though. That was my thought process as I made the video in the moment and when I decided to put them on YouTube.

I have tons of pictures and videos from previous hunts with different bullets that I've not posted anywhere. I've done these this last two deer seasons mostly to help out Mark and others interested in his bullets, but also mainly for my own reference testing his bullets. I'm looking for good lead free bullet options for my ammo business. These are basic preliminary personal tests.

I still have a full time job in the military (where that lingo comes from from FEENIX), and that takes most of my time. Family life takes pretty much the rest. My business barely exists right now because it's not going to go fully operational until I retire from my current job and after my kids leave the house. I just add equipment and do what I can in the meantime. It's pretty much dormant at the moment, on purpose.

 

[fordy]

Gday Aron

Look forward to those reports & the videos or pictures in future additions

I'll leave you with this
Once you get more data on the leadfree bullets options start a little bit deeper investigation on the how & why ( the easiest way I found is seek out where they are showing average to bad preformance levels & today I've refined what I consider good as I'm honing in on some real fine things & bangflops I'm still finding room for improvement with the group of other nut jobs I'm lucky to share the same disease with that hopefully raises the bar again )
Even the mushroom monos produce a good outcome & can be a good option in certain cases that may suit your business or future business plan well , but for now the better shedding monos ( notice I put monos not mono ) reign supreme by a fair margin especially in the velocity window where they have good killing rates not just a dead critter

Cheers Fordy

 

[Petey308]

Gday Aron

Look forward to those reports & the videos or pictures in future additions

I'll leave you with this
Once you get more data on the leadfree bullets options start a little bit deeper investigation on the how & why ( the easiest way I found is seek out where they are showing average to bad preformance levels & today I've refined what I consider good as I'm honing in on some real fine things & bangflops I'm still finding room for improvement with the group of other nut jobs I'm lucky to share the same disease with that hopefully raises the bar again )
Even the mushroom monos produce a good outcome & can be a good option in certain cases that may suit your business or future business plan well , but for now the better shedding monos ( notice I put monos not mono ) reign supreme by a fair margin especially in the velocity window where they have good killing rates not just a dead critter

Cheers Fordy

Yes, every bullet has its place. Some excel at certain scenarios more than others, and some excel in more areas overall, and become favorites.

I have a lot of data already compiled and waiting, and a lot more I plan to gather. All the different monos and lead core hunting bullets will be thoroughly compared. It should be more than enough to keep me busy when I quit (retire) my day job. And don't worry, that book is still coming along, and I'm sure it will be one of a few before I'm done.