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Your chart there looks like it came from the same source I use, so it should be the same.


Using the Exel version, you can look at half o quarter nodes if you wanted, although I don't really prefer those as their wiggle room for low SD/ES is very low. They're more delicate and temps swings and such can throw you out of the node pretty easily.

You are right. Thanks.
 
By using MV and barrel time, along with a separate OBT calculator.

So I start with inputting as many of the data points as I can to what I know and can measure, like COAL, case length, barrel length, water capacity, etc and get a safe starting load, then I shoot a few charges starting low and record the actual MV. I then tweak the burn rate (Ba) in QL until the MV is calculates matches my actual MVs as close as possible.

From there, I look at the time it says the bullet is in the barrel and adjust, compare that to the OBT on my calculator, and then adjust the powder charge up or down in QL until the time is as close to the OBT as possible.
I do the same as you on the QL stuff.

Thanks for sharing the OBT calculator you use.
 
So did you ever get them to shoot good?
I'm not quite done with load development yet, unfortunately. I'm hoping to get out and do more on Monday. I hardly get any time for this stuff anymore, so it's whenever I get a chance. That said, this was the best group I got on the initial firings at 100 yards. It looks like the node happens to be right around the charge weight this was too, so it should tighten up a bit more once I find it.

0E36A1AD-1D70-47CB-A9FB-EC7B55C3643D.jpeg
 
I'm not quite done with load development yet, unfortunately. I'm hoping to get out and do more on Monday. I hardly get any time for this stuff anymore, so it's whenever I get a chance. That said, this was the best group I got on the initial firings at 100 yards. It looks like the node happens to be right around the charge weight this was too, so it should tighten up a bit more once I find it.

View attachment 400025
Let us know how it turns out. Might try some in my 20" Tikka
 
A bit of an update:

Unfortunately my schedule hasn't allowed me to go get the last bit of load development done yet, but I'm confident that no matter what, I'll get some loaded up for testing on deer soon.

In the meantime, I've been extremely interested in the internals with this bullet and the mechanisms on how it works (or at least the evidence presented). So I put this bullet at the top of the list on my dissections and got it done Friday. Here are the pictures:

F311B3D6-C04B-4AAD-8369-1C6BA35BFEFA.jpeg
44610F2C-69F2-4F1F-BE93-DEB5B0025BD6.jpeg
C8E3DA80-8925-4C0C-BF5E-087730B287AF.jpeg
3AFE8A9C-ED5E-49F9-B88C-5F8BDE0CC7EA.jpeg
2FCCF1C9-FD8C-487F-A342-CCA003C73FCC.jpeg
EDF90F6B-99CF-4061-8D50-5C3AFBEBE90A.jpeg
01F0B6C7-3311-4996-B46D-18DFD1C6A838.jpeg
C7DE1152-C2E0-4955-A4A4-7936FDB31DB8.jpeg
2F381DD0-AAFF-4B24-A1EB-75FDC0BAC6F5.jpeg
53820101-A11E-4655-A1CA-DAEB94CDEDE1.jpeg


So my initial thoughts are:

  • I really like what I see and it's exactly what I was hoping to see, and also what I anticipated based on the results I've seen so far on the terminal performance/behavior.


  • The cavity length is almost half the length of the entire bullet (minus the tip), which is great, and needed, for weakening that entire area sufficiently to allow reliable expansion/deformation, especially at lower impact velocities.

  • The cavity overall is pretty wide, which is a good thing, for the same reasons as above. It allows for pressure to build quickly and greatly, internally, to force the material outward. That in turn also allows for better performance regarding terminal stability. The nose will come apart with less overall effort/force/pressure required, and cleanly, and keep the remaining shank running true as it continues to penetrate.

  • The cavity varies in width. It's wider where the tip is inserted due to the broaching and the mouth of the cavity has also been beveled. The broaching does not extent the entire length of the cavity.

  • There is indeed broaching done to the cavity that essentially increases cavity diameter, but more importantly creates multiple weakened areas that will be where the copper splits during expansion/deformation and thus results in very deliberate, reliable, and consistent formation of petals, as well as ensures it occurs reliably still at lower impact velocities. Like I said before, this helps lower pressure/force required and produces very fast and uniform separation of the petals as well as it ensures terminal stability is not compromised.

  • The material cut very easily and did not actually appear very hard at all. It was actually one of the easier bullets I've cut so far. My assumption would be that this would also have a significant effect on expansion/deformation rate, reliability, consistency, and at both high and low extremes of impact velocity.
Excellent work here, Mark (@mcdil)! I'm really excited to get these tested on a whitetail or two and see just how it goes.
 
Last edited:
A bit of an update:

Unfortunately my schedule hasn't allowed me to go get the last bit of loss development done yet, but I'm confident that no matter what, I'll get some loaded up for testing on deer soon.

In the meantime, I've been extremely interested in the internals with this bullet and the mechanisms in how it works (or at least the evidence presented). So I put this bullet at the top of the list on my dissections and got it done Friday. Here are the pictures:

View attachment 404251View attachment 404252View attachment 404253View attachment 404254View attachment 404255View attachment 404256View attachment 404257View attachment 404258View attachment 404260View attachment 404261

So my initial thoughts are:

  • I really like what I see and it's exactly what I was hoping to see, and also what I anticipated based on the results I've seen so far on the terminal performance/behavior.


  • The cavity length is almost half the length of the entire bullet (minus the tip), which is great, and needed, for weakening that entire area sufficiently to allow reliable expansion/deformation, especially at lower impact velocities.

  • The cavity overall is pretty wide, which is a good thing, for the same reasons as above. It allows for pressure to build quickly and greatly, internally, to force the material outward. That in turn also allows for better performance regarding terminal stability. The nose will come apart with less overall effort/force/pressure required, and cleanly, and keep the remaining shank running true as it continues to penetrate.

  • The cavity varies in width. It's wider where the tip is inserted due to the broaching and the mouth of the cavity has also been beveled. The broaching does not extent the entire length of the cavity.

  • There is indeed broaching done to the cavity that essentially increases cavity diameter, but more importantly creates multiple weakened areas that will be where the copper splits during expansion/deformation and thus results in very deliberate, reliable, and consistent formation of petals, as well as ensures it occurs reliably still at lower impact velocities. Like I said before, this helps lower pressure/force required and produces very fast and uniform separation of the petals as well as it ensures terminal stability is not compromised.

  • The material cut very easily and did not actually appear very hard at all. It was actually one of the easier bullets I've cut so far. My assumption would be that this would also have a significant effect on expansion/deformation rate, reliability, consistency, and at both high and low extremes of impact velocity.
Excellent work here, Mark (@mcdil)! I'm really excited to get these tested on a whitetail or two and see just how it goes.
Well done, Brother, and thanks for sharing. I agree Mark did an excellent job on the design.
 
Got the initial rounds shot today. The following below is the data gathered from those rounds:

135gr Afterburner

42.0gr

1- 2953
2- 2953
3- 2962
A- 2956
SD- 5
ES- 9

42.5gr

1- 3004
2- 3011
3- 2993
A- 3002
SD-9
ES- 18

43.0gr

1- 3003
2- 2996
3- 3017
A- 3005
SD- 10
ES- 21

So that's exciting and means it is faster like we thought and capable of the 3000 ft./s mark. So with all that data plugged in to QuickLoad and with it now calibrated the estimated OBT node is 42.7gr with an estimated MV of 2991fps.

So next, I will load up some more rounds below, at, and above that estimated charge weight and then go shoot those and confirm where the actual node is.
Could you explain what "OBT" is?
I had no idea there was a formula for discovering a rifle's accuracy node based on barrel length, powder charge, etc. Fascinating!
If you'd rather PM to maintain thread integrity, I understand.
 
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